65. Princess Leutogi (Samoan Mythology)

Lizzie 

Hello, and welcome to Mytholadies, the podcast where we talk about women from mythology and folklore all over the world. We're your hosts.

Zoe 

I'm Zoe.

Lizzie 

And I'm Lizzie. And how are you today, Zoe?

Zoe 

I'm good. I'm quite tired. I've been incredibly busy the past few weeks, the semester started and my professors did not give us any breathing room, they immediately jumped in with lots and lots of work. So that was exciting, and unexpected. But I think I've sort of managed to develop a routine and get on top of everything, so that's good.

Lizzie 

Nice.

Zoe 

How are you, Lizzie?

Lizzie 

I'm fine. I feel like fall came like extremely fast. It just got really, really cold.

Zoe 

Very true.

Lizzie 

And I'm afraid to turn my heating on because gas prices are really expensive right now. So yeah, yeah. So I'm just layering. And I bought a wireless like, heated pillow. Yeah, that's how I am trying to survive the winter. But it's fine. I'm excited for fall.

Zoe 

Me too. Yeah, I am excited for fall. Yeah, we can't turn our heat on yet. Because of how the college works. You know, they just start they like started the like big power plant thing that starts the heat a few weeks ago and it's not ready for us to like all start turning our heat on yet, so we don't have heat yet. But I've been doing okay, I run naturally warm. So I've been fine. I have like a blanket at night if I get cold but for most part.

Lizzie 

Can't relate.

Zoe 

Yeah, sorry. It's like Edward and Jacob.

Lizzie 

It's exactly. I'm Edward.

Zoe 

I'm Jacob. What can I say I'm hotter than you is what I think Jacob says in the movie probably I don't know. I haven't seen it. Probably

Lizzie 

I actually watched New Moon the other day.

Zoe 

I've seen New Moon, I haven't seen the other ones. And I don't know if that happens. And

Lizzie 

I haven't seen Eclipse because I don't like Eclipse. I think it was in Eclipse.

Zoe 

I can't tell you anything that happens in Eclipse. I know some things that happen in all the other ones but I don't know what happens in Eclipse.

Lizzie 

Because Eclipse is the worst one?

Zoe 

Sure. I believe it again.

Lizzie 

That's how that's how I feel.

Zoe 

Never read them. Never seen them.

Lizzie 

Oh. Then, you wouldn't.

Zoe 

I've never seen the Eclipse movie. I've seen the Twilight movie and the new moon movie and I haven't seen Eclipse or any of the Breaking Dawn movies.

Lizzie 

So you weren't a Twilight kid then.

Zoe 

No, it was before my time. My sister read the books.  I guess they were a bit, it was before your time. Yeah, yeah. It started when I was like in middle school. So you would have been really young.  Yeah, I mean, I was too young to read it or whatever. I did see them like when it came out. So and it was you know, a whole fad and hating on Twilight became a thing really fast. So

Lizzie 

No, yeah, I was in both camps. I was in the Twilight reading camp and I was in the hating on Twilight camp at different times, obviously. But yeah.

Zoe 

Anyways, all this to say I run naturally warm, like, Twilight. That is where the comparison stops. I believe.

Lizzie 

You're not a wolf?

Zoe 

No, unfortunately. Anyways.

Lizzie 

Anyway.

Zoe 

But actually on a more serious note, I do have a correction to make from an episode a few weeks ago, which is our Draupadi episode. And the correction is that in the episode I originally mentioned the Bhagavad Gita. And I think I said it was like a literary poem that's also like super important to Sanskrit literature. But that's not a fully accurate description of the Bhagavad Gita. It's not just a poem. It's also a really important religious text and scripture to Hinduism. And so I wanted to acknowledge that I first of all, didn't do the proper research on what the poem was when I did the episode, so that was improper of me, and also that I sort of simplified and like, devalued the role of the poem to people practicing Hinduism, and I apologized for that and since then, we have edited the episodes to take that bit out because it was a pretty small bit and also we've just added a little note that—

Lizzie 

Yeah, a viewer pointed this out. And so we took that and, and have edited it, but we also just wanted to acknowledge it.

Zoe 

Yeah, so thank you to the viewer for pointing it out. And so if you listen to the episode now, it's not there, but we added a note to the Instagram post and the episode description to mention that it had been in there. And we have since taken it out. And in the future, we and especially me will do better research when looking at texts relating to Hinduism and also all religious texts. I think it's really important.

Lizzie 

Yeah, we try to do. We try to do very proper research whenever we can. But like we do often talk about cultures that we're not a part of. So if anyone wants to correct something, we've said in an episode. Please feel free. We have a contact form on our website.

Zoe 

Yeah, and I think the what happened was, I was just like, Oh, I know what this is. And I was just wrong. I didn't know what it was. And I should have double checked myself and I didn't. So in the future, I will definitely be double checking myself a lot more, because I definitely am in no way an expert on Hinduism and in no way expert on most of the or pretty much all of the things we talk about on this podcast. So.

Lizzie 

That being said, we also just want to remind you that we have a ko-fi page and we also have an option to subscribe to our bonus episodes on Spotify. Which ko-fi is a nice option if you just want to donate some money to us and Spotify is also a nice option if you want to listen to the bonus episodes, like on an actual podcast player. Also if you want to listen to our bonus episodes, you can do so either via ko-fi or via Spotify subscriptions. Our most recent bonus episode, we talked about Tomie dePaola's very classic children's book series Strega Nona. And it was a really fun discussion and you should listen to it. Yeah. And our other bonus episodes. That all being said, Zoe, who are we talking about today?

Zoe 

Yeah, so today, I'm continuing our Halloween theme, although in a slightly different direction. This lady is not necessarily a scary lady. But she does have a bit of a Halloween ish. One could think association and that I'm talking about Princess Leutogi, who is the Samoan goddess associated with bats.

Lizzie 

Cool!

Zoe 

Yeah. So have you heard of her at all?  Okay. That's fine. But yes, so as I said before she is is associated with bats. She is, I think, now still worshipped as a goddess, or considered to be a goddess. But she was also at one point, also considered to be a figure that then became more powerful than just a normal human being. And she has a pretty classic story that is associated with her. So basically, the story goes back to the longstanding feud or sort of unrest and tensions between Samoa and Tonga. It's lasted for a really long time. They are two sort of main islands, groups of islands in the Pacific Ocean. Samoa consists of two main islands, which are Savai’i and Upolu, as well as several smaller islands. And it's located about 2600 miles south of Hawaii, if that helps people sort of locate it. And then Tonga is the foreign nation closest to Samoa. It's about 522 miles southwest. So it's still of course, not very close, but it's closer than anywhere else. And it's a made of about 171 islands, of which about 45 are inhabited. And since there's the two closest nations to each other, they've had a lot of interaction throughout the years them and also Fiji, which is nearest to them, though not as close as the two of them are. There's been a lot of trade, and there's also been a decent amount of conflict. And so at one point, during an act of war between Samoa and Tonga, there was an attempt at peace made through marriage. So Samoa sent their princess, Leutogi, to marry the King of Tonga and be his second wife. And this choice was sort of made for Princess Leutogi. She was not super thrilled about the idea of leaving Samoa, but she, it was her duty, and she didn't really have a choice. So she went with it. And she left her home islands and sailed, and like, you know, went all the way to Tonga, and knew she probably wasn't ever going to be able to return. So it was pretty sad. But even though they got married, the war still continued. It didn't really do anything to ease the fighting, but she still lived on an island. She still lived on Tonga and she also wasn't treated super well by the people on the island because she was, she wasn't Tongan, she was Samoan, and that she was you know, related to the people they were fighting. And she was also, the king had another wife who was Tongan and she was pretty mean to her. And also, Princess Leutogi was pretty kind, she was really nice to nature. She was careful around everything to make sure that she was you know, respecting everything and like treating it carefully and not destroying things unnecessarily. And the queen, the king's first wife saw her kindness as a weakness. And so everyone around Princess Leutogi was pretty mean to her. They, even the ones who are like tasked with taking care of her as like aides were still pretty rude to her and disrespectful. So she was extremely lonely, because there was like no one around her that was like really nice to her. And so she spent a lot of time out in nature away from everyone. And so one day, when she was on a walk with her retainer, she found a fruit bat with an injured wing lying on the ground. And so, feeling bad for the bat, she went to try and help it. And her retainer was, thought she That was weird for her to do and mocked her, pushed her aside to try and put the bat out of its misery. But she stood up to him and was like, No, I'm going to take care of this bat and commanded him as royalty to stand down and let her take the bat on. So she picked up the scared bat and promised to help it so that it wouldn't be alone. Unlike herself.

Lizzie 

No.  Aw. That's so sad. And nice.

Zoe 

Yeah, so she now had a companion in this bat who had been injured and that she had found in the forests. And so when she returned to the palace with her bat, the retainers and the servants all mocked her for taking a bat in and instead of like, just letting it die, as you know, is the sort of natural way of life, but she ignored them. And she began to nurse the bat back to health, she would take it out of her room at night, and she would feed it bits of fruit, you know, like nice mangoes and papaya and stuff. And that sort of gave her new purpose in life. You know, it gave her someone, someone to spend time with it gave her someone to care for. And even though she still missed her native country and was sad that she could never return to her country, she told about stories about Samoa and she sang songs about home to it. And so she sort of had like an outlet for that now.

Lizzie 

That's really nice.

Zoe 

Yeah. And then eventually, of course, because she was taking such good care of the bat, the bat's wing eventually was healed enough that it could finally you know, go back into the wild and return to its normal life as a bat. And that, of course, made her really sad because she was, this was her companion. And now she didn't have she was gonna have to let go of it. But she knew it was—

Lizzie 

So the bat just flew away?

Zoe 

Well, so the bat hadn't left yet, but she was gonna like sort of release it back into the wild. So as she was getting ready to say goodbye, and she went out into the forest at night, which was a little dangerous, because there were dangerous spirits in the forest at night. But she wasn't afraid. And she took the bat into the woods after dark, and she looked for a safe place to leave it. And when she found a good spot, she said goodbye and lifted into the sky and let it fly safely away. And yeah, so the bat was gone. And she was, of course, quite sad and alone again, and the people around her were still being really mean to her. And the king's first wife, actually, the queen mocked her and said that since she was so good at taking care of little things, she should now take care of her son, the prince, the queen's son, not Leutogi's son. And the prince was, of course, a spoiled brat and was not kind and like just demanded everything and was not a nice person to spend time with. But because the queen as the first wife had like precedents and was better liked by everyone, she could make Leutogi do that. And so now

Lizzie 

She had seniority. There's a pecking order.

Zoe 

Yeah, she had seniority and her no one really liked Leutogi. And so she was forced to watch him and get him to behave day and night. And so one night, Leutogi was just overwhelmed by everything and she snuck away into the night. She was no longer afraid of the night spirits. She just wanted to go back into the woods again, she just wanted to get away from it all. And then she suddenly heard a fluttering of wings. And looking up, she saw no one else other than her bat descending upon her. And she rejoiced to see it again.

Lizzie 

The bat came back!

Zoe 

Yeah, so the bat came back to her and she spent the night with it, as she always had before when she was taking care of it. She was singing songs, she was telling it stories just like the old days. And so she began to do this more often. Every night she began to sneak out to see her bat she brought pieces of fruit to share with it. And as time went on, other bats began to join and she became close with all of them. And so she had this like sort of outlet for her life to you know, to see the bat and for people to and something for her to do do that like was brought her joy. She no longer felt like super awful spending time with the prince during the day. She didn't mind it as much. But then one day the prince grew ill.

Lizzie 

Did you say how old the prince is?

Zoe 

No, I assume the prince is like pretty young, like a little kid. So the prince got sick and Leutogi was like, hey, the prince is sick. I think like something's wrong with him. But everyone was like, oh, you're just making a big deal out of nothing, including the mom, including his own mother, the queen. So she tried to take care of him, but she didn't really have any help or support. And so finally, one night after returning from her excursion with the bats, she found out the prince had died. Yeah. And so the queen, of course, blamed Leutogi for his death. And the king declared that Leutogi must be burned alive in order to pay for her flaws and for the suffering that she had brought upon him, and that he had lost his child and his heir. And so she was powerless. And she was surrounded by her enemies. And so she was bound to the tree. She was bound to a tree and awaiting her death. She didn't, obviously didn't want to be burned to death, but like, there was nothing she could do she like—

Lizzie 

I mean, yeah, she's kind of powerless.

Zoe 

She was overwhelmed. They were completely outnumbered. No one was there to help her. So she just like was waiting and she began to sing one last song from her childhood. And as the flames rose around her, everyone began to hear a strange sound, sort of like a beating rushing sound. And so from the trees of the island emerged, a massive swarm of bats. Like all the bats on the island, and they extinguish the fire around Princess Leutogi, unharmed.

Lizzie 

That's so nice.

Zoe 

They peed on the fire. And they left her unharmed.

Lizzie 

Oh.

Zoe 

Yeah. And now that she was safe from being burned alive, and also had an entire army of bats on her side, that people of Tonga became pretty afraid. They couldn't send her back to Samoa, because, you know, they had struck this deal with the people. And they didn't want to make hostilities worse. But also, they couldn't let her stay on their island because they were afraid of her. And so they decided to just try and abandoned her on a barren island and hope that nature would do the work of killing her for them.

Lizzie 

I would think that if they were going to burn her alive, that would make a bigger political statement than like sending her home.

Zoe 

That's a very good point, you know, but.

Lizzie 

Not the point of the story. I guess.

Zoe 

It's not the point of the story. I don't know.

Lizzie 

That'd be cause for war.

Zoe 

I guess. Or maybe like, the reason why they didn't want to send her back was less because they was less about like, you know, oh, we have this deal. And now we broke it. And we're breaking it by sending your back and more like, we don't want to send this like clearly powerful woman like back to help you in the war or something like that. I don't know.

Lizzie 

Oh, yeah. Yeah, could be.

Zoe 

There was less like it wasn't really explained. And I don't really know the details of the politics. But there for whatever reason, they were like, we can't send her back to Samoa. So we're gonna abandon her on a barren island and hope that she just like dies of hunger and thirst, you know.

Lizzie 

But her friends can fly.

Zoe 

Well, interesting you should mention that, right. So after some time, they had abandoned her the Tongan King was like, hmm, maybe we should make sure that she's dead. Like, just, just to be safe, and so he sent a retainer after Leutogi in order to make sure that she had died. And so when the retainer arrived on the islands, he did not find a dead princess. But he found Leutogi looking very alive. In fact, she looked more healthy and more beautiful than ever before. And she welcomed him to her new home, no sign of any like grudges or anything, and she offered him the most beautiful and delicious fruits he had ever seen. And when he asked her where she'd gotten them, she just pointed to the sky. And so the retainer was frightened and he ran back to his canoe and just paddled away as fast as he could. He did not want to stay there anymore. But as he was escaping the island, he heard another rushing sound and he turned to see a massive swarm of bats settling down on the island. And they were bringing with them food and supplies. And Leutogi welcomed them back happily, especially the bats that she had nursed back to health. So she was living there happily on the island. They could not kill her because all her bat friends were bringing her the thing she needed to survive. And eventually, as time passed, she became recognized as more than just a princess but worshipped as a goddess of both bats and fertility. So.

Lizzie 

That's really nice. That's a great story.

Zoe 

It is a really fun story. What are your thoughts so far?

Lizzie 

So I was thinking about like, why specifically, bats would be like a good creature for this story, and I feel like bats are quite like kind of an ostracized animal.

Zoe 

Yeah, for sure.

Lizzie 

Which is like, why, you know, vampires are like bats, because like bats are kind of outside of everything. And that's not really like accepted by humans the way that a bunch of other animals are like people are either like scared of bats, or like, if you saw a bat you would definitely freak out. You know, like, you would not want it to be like a pet or something.

Zoe 

Yeah.

Lizzie 

So I think it makes sense that like Princess Leutogi would like feel kinship with the bats, because she's also ostracized and not accepted and lonely, and considered to be weird. So I think it's nice that it's like a bat, and not just any random animal. Because like, it, it makes sense. Like, there's parallels. And it's nice that she's taking care of, like a kind of, a creature that's kind of seen as scary. You know, I mean, I don't know if it's specifically seen as scary in Tonga, but like, from what I know, bats are not friendly. Like seen as friendly by people.

Zoe 

Yeah, I mean, so actually, it's very interesting that you had mentioned that, because that's part of my notes for this episode is that, of course, as we talked about, bats have a pretty negative connotation throughout like Europe and North America, because as we've sort of talked about, you know, vampires, ostracization. They're associated with like rabies and stuff, even though bats actually have pretty low rates of rabies.

Lizzie 

And like, nighttime, caves.

Zoe 

Yeah, nighttime and stuff like that. Darkness. But actually, bats have different mythological connotations based on where you are in the world. And I do want to point out that I am playing into our western perception, like our Western European perception of bats, because, like I am talking about bats in the concept like a bat Goddess, and the concept of like, in the context of like, a Halloween related episode, but also, I do think it's interesting to talk about how bats actually do have different connotations based on where you are in the world. So they have pretty negative connotations, and Europe, the United States and Central America. They're sort of associated with fear, uneasiness and punishment. But they actually have more positive connotations of like luck, longevity, and helpfulness and China, India, Japan, and also the Pacific.

Lizzie 

Oh!

Zoe 

So they have slightly different connotations are actually not slightly different, like absolutely opposite connotations, depending on where you are.

Lizzie 

That's interesting, okay,

Zoe 

Which is cool and interesting. And, actually, there are stories related to bats, like specifically in mythology in the area of like Samoa, Fiji, Tonga, in that they, in mythology from these islands, spirits often fly and reside in trees and often take forms of flying tree-residing animals, such as birds, or also bats. And they're actually the totemic animal for the King of Tonga and used as a symbol of protection on the island. So they're actually have like, a more positive connotation, like as a protection symbol on Tonga.

Lizzie 

Yeah, like that's, that's clear from the story. Like they even like when he looks up and just like sees fruits falling from above or something or know that she, that she looks up and is like, oh, they're from the sky. Like that makes them seem very mythical, like powerful. Like a deity type of thing. Like, oh, there's just like, I get fruits from like the sky, because bats bring them to me. Like, that does seem like a powerful type of figure.

Zoe 

Yeah. And so like, the association with her and bats is less like, Oh, she's the scary lady who like controls all the bats and stuff and more like, oh, this woman is very powerful. And we like messed with the wrong woman, or we treated this woman badly. I feel like is sort of the connotation here, right?

Lizzie 

Yeah, 'cause like now look, she has the bats on her side. And that cannot end well for us, because bats are protective and powerful.

Zoe 

Yeah, and there's actually a little story about these islands where, once upon a time, there were Fijians who knew how to fly. And so they decided at one point they were going to fly over to Samoa and steal yams from Malietoa, who was one of the four pāpā or district titles in Samoa. And also yams as a sidenote are an important crop for Tongans. So there's, it's just all connected here. But Malietoa catches them in a net, he's noticed as they're stealing his crops, any forces them to admit their crime. And then after they've done that, He changes them into bats and chases them off of Samoa, all the way to Tonga, where they became their totem animal. So there's this sort of story that unites all three islands in this area, or all three island nations because they're not just one island each, but you know, so that's interesting, too. And that also gives like, you know, a greater association of bats to humans because it's like these bats were once humans

Lizzie 

Yeah.

Zoe 

So they were flying and now they're on Tonga as like a sort of sacred or like, you know, respected animal like, they are respected. I think that you know, the reason why the, I mean, there's like respect to wanting to put an animal out of its misery too, right, you know, it's like, we're not gonna let this animal just suffer until it dies. I think that's not necessarily a bad thing that like, the attendant wanted to do that or the retainer I think was the title. But I think, you know, she just like saw sort of different. She had a different point of view and was like, I think—

Lizzie 

she saw a creature that was like suffering and just really wanted to help.

Zoe 

Yeah, well, she saw a creature that was not done for she saw a creature that could potentially, like, be saved. And if like, the creature was, like, too far gone, I think, you know, putting it out of his misery wouldn't necessarily have been a bad thing.

Lizzie 

Yeah, but like, from her perspective, like, she was also suffering and she was like, lonely. And so it's like, oh, but I can help this creature who's also hurting?

Zoe 

Yeah, you know, she, like saw herself in the creature and was like, this creature is suffering, but it's not over for this creature. Yeah, just like I'm suffering, but it's not over for me yet. You know?

Lizzie 

Yeah. It's like that kind of showed her own resilience of like, I'm suffering. But like, I'm gonna get through it.

Zoe 

Yeah, exactly. And so there's actually also I found a second version of the story, which is a little different than the first version. So the first version i is from the Legends From the Pacific podcast, where they have an episode about Princess Leutogi. And then I found another example of the story, which is from an earlier time, it's basically adapted from like, what appears to be the first time the story was physically written down by at least by Europeans. It was written brought down by the German colonizer, Augustin Krämer, and recorded by a Catholic missionary Brother Henry Gunson, and it differs from the original story that I told in several important ways. And that it says that Leutogi was overwhelmed by anger about her inability to have children while the Tongan queen was able to successfully make an heir for the king and part of this was because the court saw that she was you know, unsuccessful in having a child and teased her about it and compared her to the the queen who had been able to have a child so it absolutely makes sense you would develop a complex about that if you know your, everyone was like, oh, you can't make an heir but this woman can, you would absolutely become like angry or upset about it. But because of her anger and unhappiness, she actually decided she wanted to kill the queen's baby in this version. So one day while she was out with the queen and her child, the queen asked, they were gonna go bathing, the queen asked Leutogi to hold the child while she bathed herself first. And Princess Leutogi realized she had an opportunity for revenge and so she murdered the child. And the Queen heard the child cry out, hurried back and of course found that her child was dead, and immediately suspected, Leutogi and once they like looked at it, I mean, it was pretty obvious I think, like what had happened, they decided she must be put to death by burning. And then the same thing occurs as before, they set the fire, the bats come to put it out and then they abandon her on the island. And this time, it's noted that a malevolent spirit named Losi lives on the island, and they leave her on that specific island with the hope that he will kill later on. He however, he doesn't bother because he thinks she'll die anyway from lack of food and water. So he like just kind of watches her and like doesn't really put in energy to actually kill her.

Lizzie 

She's pitiful enough that like, I don't have to do anything.

Zoe 

Yeah, basically, um, but of course, as before the bats come to bring her food and she survives, and then eventually a Fijian man named Tui’Uvea sails by, and she calls him to shore and invites him to stay with her as her husband. And then he agrees and they live together happily, and she bears him a son named Fa’asega. And then once Fa’asega was fully grown, she sent him away from her island back to Savai'i, which is one of the two main islands of Samoa, but before he left, she gave him three titles to bring with him. So the first one was Tonumaipe’a, which means the right thing brought about by bats. Then there was Tilomai, which is to look upon like the spirit of Losi, he looked upon her but did not harm her. And then Tau’ili’ili , which means to cover an earth over with pebbles. And that is actually a reference to the fact that usually Samoans covered their ovens with leaves, but since her island had no plants, she used pebbles, and so yeah, that is the story, the second story, which follows some basic points, but it differs in that there's bigger emphasis on her ability to have a child she actually murders the queen's child. And she has a husband at the end.

Lizzie 

She's not just wrongly accused. Is there still bats in this one?

Zoe 

Yeah, there's still bats. I just didn't go into full detail because it's basically the same as the first story. And I didn't want to be too repetitive but like, yeah, the bats come, they put out the fire, and then they bring her food and stuff on the island. So besides, besides those details, everything's basically the same. But yeah. Do you have any thoughts on this story?

Lizzie 

I like when they focus on the bat thing more because I feel like it has like a moral to the story of like, be kind to disenfranchised creatures, or people, like help people and they'll help you back but also, and also the bats didn't help her because just because they like owed her or whatever, but also because she was very genuine and like caring about it, I assume.

Zoe 

Yes.

Lizzie 

This is just reading in between the lines. And it wasn't just, she could have them help her at a crucial moment, she genuinely cared.

Zoe 

Yeah.

Lizzie 

But I mean, yeah, it's also nice that she has a son and like a husband. It's nice that she wasn't totally lonely in the island. Like, that seems like it would be extremely lonely literally being exiled to an island by yourself with.

Zoe 

Yeah, yeah. And I like that. I mean, I think that, you know, the idea that she is able to ultimately fulfill, like what she's been set out to do, which is to be a wife, and to probably produce an heir of some sort is able to be fulfilled in the second version, although in a slightly different way.

Lizzie 

Yeah, and the story could go on, he could come back and visit.

Zoe 

Yeah.

Lizzie 

He could bring his own children to visit.

Zoe 

Yeah, you know, like, it's a nice—

Lizzie 

It can continue on. Yeah.

Zoe 

And so the second story I found, like, within an essay that was about like, analyzing the story, so I found a lot of analysis specifically for the second story, but a lot of it has to do with like, the political relationships between Tonga and Samoa and Fiji at the time, and which they were engaged in a lot of, as I said before, there was a lot of like, interaction going on, they were trading a lot and there were also like a lot of like marriage between the three different islands at the same time, in this sort of like relationship of trade and marriage that existed between the three like island nations, Tongan women were generally viewed as having superior status to Tongan men, and so they would be sent to marry not Tongan men, but Fijian men, and in exchange, Tongans would receive red parakeet feathers, and then the Tongan men would exchange those feathers for Samoan wives. And then in Samoa, the parakeet feathers would be woven into ceremonial mats, which were sent as dowry alongside their women and used in important political ceremonies. So there was this whole like interchange going on.

Lizzie 

Yeah, that's interesting.

Zoe 

Yeah. And so in some ways, Tonga has a sort of regional dominance. You can sort of see in that like, quick summation of how the trade was working, that Tonga was sort of the focus like they were the ones who were getting most of the things in the end. But yeah, like it basically it sort of shows that like the narrative of the trade is much like targets the center, and it shows that like in Tongan culture Tongans are at a higher social level that Samoans and we can really see that in Leutogi's treatment, in the court you know, she's pretty much looked down upon and treated pretty badly.

Lizzie 

Yeah.

Zoe 

And throughout the story, we see the king's Tongan wife asserting her social dominance through many ways, first, through her taunting Leutogi, about her childlessness and then demanding that she bathe first, which would outright like assert a social dominance that like I get to bathe first because I'm like, higher status than you sort of thing right? And so at first, it seems like the story is aligning with the narrative of Tongan dominance because she has to, Leutogi has to care for a child that's not hers. You know, she's being like trodden upon by society, I guess. But then, while the queen bathes and she kills the child, she's sort of reasserting her own agency and rebelling against the submissive role she's been forced into. And she's also challenging the narrative that holds Tongans as inherently superior by destroying the royal bloodline in one moment by demonstrating its vulnerability, because Samoans didn't have as much of like a like bloodline-based system of like ruling but Tongans did and so like by you know—

Lizzie 

That's a powerful statement.

Zoe 

Yeah, so by like killing the son, she's like—

Lizzie 

In support of Samoa.

Zoe 

—here's see how easily I can destroy you. Your like future like ruler, because if it's just by bloodline, like there, he's gone. What are you going to do now? You know, that sort of thing. And then if she, she, her rescue for punishment by bats and ability to flourish and have her own children on a barren island represents her ability as a Samoan to create a good and meaningful life despite the efforts of the Tongan king. And the bats who bring her food assert her own high status as someone to be served as they are bringing her fruits and supplies. They're serving her as like bats, and also as the bats are the symbol of like the Tongan king and the Tongan royal line. Like they're sort of adding, like showing like the line, like a symbol of the line submitting to the Samoan line.

Lizzie 

Yeah, yeah, overall, the Samoan Princess like wins the story.

Zoe 

Yeah. And so choosing to come to her aid rather than the aid of the king they represent, it sort of demonstrates a transferal of power from the Tongan King to Leutogi, who is the Samoan Princess, so it's sort of like, challenging the Tongan power and Tongan regional dominance and like sort of the view that Samoans are lesser than In Tongan society.

Lizzie 

Yeah. And also it kind of depicts Tongans as like mean because everyone's so mean to her.

Zoe 

Oh, yeah, I mean this whole story. I mean, it's first like it is a Samoan myth. Like at first I was like, Is it a Samoan-Tongan myth? I think it's pretty much a Samoan myth because it's so clearly from a Samoan perspective,

Lizzie 

It's clearly pro-Samoa.

Zoe 

It's pro-Samoa, not it's not pro-Tonga. So there's definitely very much a cultural bias here. And I do think it's interesting how like, it uses his all these like stories and symbols to assert this particular narrative. I do think it is like historically that like Tonga has been like the dominant power throughout the region. So like, it makes sense that like, they're sort of using these myths and stories to—

Lizzie 

It's just like it's not necessarily just mean-spirited. It's also like challenging this dominance.

Zoe 

Yeah, it's like challenging, like they've been fighting. You know, they're sort of like, yeah, haven't always had the best, like sit- been in the best situations because of like, how they've been treated, you know, like, you know, it's a complex relationship between like groups of people who've, like they're the only people they interact with, because for a long time, because they're islands—

Lizzie 

Everyone else is so far away.

Zoe 

Everything's so far away. And if you, like canoes can only take you so far on the ocean, although they can take you quite far. But like, there's a limit. And also, as I said before, in Tongan society, Tongan women are married off to Fijian men because they're considered too high class to marry Tongan men. So when Leutogi marries a Fijian man at the end, she shows she's higher up than any Tongan man, which is interesting. And it also could show a represented, like sort of show an alliance between Fiji and Samoa against the control of Tonga. So deeply political meaning and all of like—

Lizzie 

Definitely. Yeah.

Zoe 

And she also reverses the original issue of the story, which is her infertility, and she manages to give birth to her son who will bring her titles and power back to Samoa.

Lizzie 

Yeah. And if she like if she kills the Tongan queen's child to then have a child herself. Like, once again, she wins. She's fertile.

Zoe 

Yeah.

Lizzie 

The other heir is dead. And she has her own heir.

Zoe 

Yeah. And she is a goddess of fertility as well as bats. Like she's—

Lizzie 

And it's a son both times which I think isn't probably not a coincidence. Because sons are good.

Zoe 

Yeah. As we know, but yeah, so I think, you know, it's a really interesting story. And like, the layers to it are really interesting. And I do think it's interesting to think about, like, something that's symbolic, in, in this specific way, in one part of the world having like a very different like symbolic association in another part of the world too.

Lizzie 

Yeah, like it's a very, like specifically Samoan-Tongan story, like the symbols would not work in a different place.

Zoe 

Yeah. Like, at the beginning, you know, it's like, she's the goddess of bats. And it's like, ooh, that's scary. But it's also like, no, it's, bats are cool here. Like, she's very powerful.

Lizzie 

Yeah.

Zoe 

You want bats on your side. And not in like a scary way. Like, it just shows your power way, you know.

Lizzie 

I mean bats are powerful, bats are like, very cool.

Zoe 

Bats are great. Bats are, I mean, like, one of the art, the article where I got, like, most of the evidence, like most of the analysis of like trends throughout the world of like, cultural trends about bats and stuff, was basically in analyzing attitudes towards bats based on like, stigma against bats. Based on like, specifically, actually, COVID Because there's beliefs that COVID could have originated as, like a vector-borne disease from bats to humans. Although I don't know if that's been proven yet. So that's just like a theory. But yeah, you know, and like, just the sort of idea and how that influences things.

Lizzie 

Yeah, it is interesting how like, ideas about certain animals like form, like not based on facts. Bats are seen as scary. Like, pigeons are just doves.

Zoe 

Yeah, pigeons are just doves that live in the city.

Lizzie 

They're like, low class, whereas doves are fancy. Like, they're literally the same animal.

Zoe 

Yeah, they're literally the—

Lizzie 

Same thing. Like, like, what about bats is more scary than another like winged creature.

Zoe 

Yeah. And it's interesting. And I think the like historical and political aspects of the story are very interesting, and plays into something that I find really fascinating. And like, I think is incredibly important about folklore and mythology is the way that it's used for like nationalist and like, definitely, sort of, like political narratives, as well as just like, oh, this is a story about how the sun was created, you know, which can have very political connotations, like.

Lizzie 

Yeah, exactly. Like at first glance, it doesn't necessarily sound extremely political, if you don't already know. But like, when you learn about the symbols and about the history, it's like, oh, so every single aspect of this story is political. And it's nationalistic. Which is interesting.

Zoe 

Yeah. Like folklore is very powerful and it's really good to know the symbols because then you can know when it's being used for bad things.

Lizzie 

Yeah, definitely. And also, like, it makes me think about how certain stories are like, oh, this is universal, but like, it's not always universal. Sometimes it's very specific to a certain place or a certain culture. And I mean, maybe there's themes to be found that can be broadly applied. But like, you don't have to apply it to yourself. Sometimes things are just specific. And that's okay.

Zoe 

Yeah, I mean, like, there are universal themes that can be found in this, it's like, you know, be kind to others. And stuff like that is seems to be like a theme that you could take out of this. But it's also like, this is also specifically about a specific, political, like in political conflict that was going on. And like, there are still tensions today, I believe. You can say like, oh, this has like, general like implications. And also, if you like, dig deeper,

Lizzie 

Yeah, it's a story that anyone can enjoy—

Zoe 

talking about, talking about, you know, which is the case for so many, like myths. And like stories from folklore.

Lizzie 

Yeah. Yeah, like it reminds me of what we were talking about in the Two Old Women episode of like, people who are saying, like, oh, this can apply to anyone has universal themes that we can all relate to. Whereas it was actually a very specific story from the Gwich'in people that that was like not being respected by saying it's broadly applicable. But sometimes things are just, just, they're just specific. And that's okay. And like there's still something to be taken from stories that are like this, that are very specific to a certain place or a culture, they can still be enjoyed broadly, but you know, it's it's loses the meaning a little bit to, to take it out of its context like that and say that anyone can can relate to it.

Zoe 

Yeah, things, nothing comes out of a bubble. Everything comes out of a specific context. And if you understand the specific context, you will be able to better understand and even more likely, more, better enjoy the thing.

Lizzie 

Yeah, I feel like I understood the story better when you explained all the different symbols.

Zoe 

Yeah, like it's so interesting.

Lizzie 

I was like, oh! Yeah. It seems like a simple enough story at first, but it's not. It's really very deep.

Zoe 

Yeah.

Lizzie 

Yeah, I thought it was really interesting story and a really interesting cultural and historical background. So yeah, thank you. So that was our bat-themed episode.

Zoe 

Yeah.

Lizzie 

Happy Halloween. Even though it's tangentially related to Halloween. Nice. Anyway, thank you, Zoe, for today's episode, please feel free to subscribe and listen to our other episodes, leave a review, and we'll see you back here in two weeks.

Zoe 

Thank you so much. Goodbye.