69. Sedna (Inuit Mythology)

In today's episode, Lizzie tells Zoe about Sedna, the ferocious and powerful Inuit goddess of the sea. Together, they discuss the different versions and interpretations of her story, and how important she is to Inuit communities today.


Sources:

The Sea Can Wash Away All Evils : Modern Marine Pollution and the Ancient Cathartic Ocean by Kimberly C. Patton 

The Inuit Imagination: Arctic Myth and Sculpture by Harold Seidelman and James Turner

"Written in stone : a comparative analysis of Sedna and the Moon Spirit as depicted in contemporary Inuit sculpture and graphics" by Carol Ann Prokop

“The Sea Goddess Sedna: An Enduring Pan-Arctic Legend from Traditional Orature to the New Narratives of the Late Twentieth Century” by Michael P.J. Kennedy

"Dreaming an identity between Two Cultures: The Works of Alootook Ipelli" by Kimberley McMahon-Coleman 

“The Feminist Sedna: Representing the Sea Woman in Contemporary Inuit Art” by Victoria Nolte

Sedna (2003 VB12) 

https://www.inuitartfoundation.org/docs/default-source/iaq-issues/iaq-1.1-10.4/9-4.pdf?sfvrsn=eaccc745_4 

Support Inuit peoples' fight to protect their communities and the arctic:

Inuuqatigiit

ICC Alaska

ICC Canada

Inuit Art Council

Indigenous Charities in Canada

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Our cover art is by Helena Cailleaux.  You can find her and more of her  work on Instagram @helena.cailleaux.illustratrice. Our theme song was  composed and performed by Icarus Tyree. To hear more of their music, check out icarust.bandcamp.com.

 

Transcript

Zoe 

Hello, and welcome to Mytholadies, the podcast where we talk about women from mythology and folklore all over the world. We're your hosts.

 

Lizzie 

I'm Lizzie.

 

Zoe 

And I'm Zoe. And Lizzie, how's it going?

 

Lizzie 

It's going all right (laughs). I'm very nervous because I start my new job tomorrow.

 

Zoe 

Ooh. What's your new job?

 

Lizzie 

I'm going to be working in an office for the first time in years.

 

Zoe 

Whoa. Whoa.

 

Lizzie 

 Yes. Doing just editing.

 

Zoe 

Wow, girlboss.

 

Lizzie 

I know. How are you?

 

Zoe 

I'm alright. I am almost done with the semester, which is crazy and stressful, and I feel like I'm behind on everything. But somehow, it'll all get done. It's also stressful, because I'm hoping to leave school early so I can go meet up with Lizzie, which is really exciting.

 

Lizzie 

It's very exciting.

 

Zoe 

But it does mean that I need to get things done early (Lizzie laughs). So that is, in fact, stressful. But, yeah.

 

Lizzie 

Worth it, hopefully.

 

Zoe 

Hopefully everything works out. I think it will be worth it. But yeah, I have to really buckle down and--white knuckle and buckle, as they say, really get everything going. So I can do that.

 

Lizzie 

I feel like most people listening would not assume that we've never actually met in person (laughs).

 

Zoe 

Yeah, fun fact, we've never actually met in person. So this will be really exciting.

 

Lizzie 

So that's the significance.

 

Zoe 

That is the significance. That's why I'm--

 

Lizzie 

And we've known each other for a long time.

 

Zoe 

That's why I'm putting my academic career on the line (Lizzie laughs). It's--that's an exaggeration, I promise. But to go see Lizzie in real life, for the first time ever. Sparks will fly. It'll be magical. They'll be tremors across the world, and I'm very excited for it.

 

Lizzie 

Exactly.

 

Zoe 

However, it does mean I have to write my paper early. So less excited for that.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah, that sucks.

 

Zoe 

It is what it is, though, as they say. Anyway, before we begin, just a reminder to everyone that we have a Ko-fi that you can donate to. And if you donate to it, one-time or recurring, you can get access to our bonus episodes, which is really cool. We have three bonus episodes now, and they're all really fun to listen to. And also, if you'd like to listen to them on a major podcasting platform, you can subscribe to us on Spotify for $5 a month. And then you can listen to our bonus episodes there as well. So that'll be cool and fun. And--anyways, Lizzie, who are we talking about today?

 

Lizzie 

Today we're gonna talk about somebody pretty exciting. Well, I think she's exciting.

 

Zoe 

Oh?

 

Lizzie 

Sedna (Zoe gasps), from Inuit mythology.

 

Zoe 

Oh my gosh, awesome!

 

Lizzie 

What do you know about her?

 

Zoe 

Okay, so I know she is--I know she's from Inuit mythology. And I know she's associated with like, the water and the ocean.

 

Lizzie 

Correct.

 

Zoe 

And I want to say maybe, like, water creatures as well.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah.

 

Zoe 

I've looked into her many times. But obviously, I've never actually done her before, because here we are now.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah (laughs).

 

Zoe 

But she seems very cool, and I'm excited to learn more about her. I think she's very powerful. And maybe a little scary--

 

Lizzie 

Yes.

 

Zoe 

--but, like, more in, like, a powerful way than, like, an evil way. I think?

 

Lizzie 

Yeah, exactly. That's exactly correct.

 

Zoe 

Yeah. So tell me about her.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah. I'm pretty excited because I've been wanting to learn about her for a while and now I know a lot about her.

 

Zoe 

Wow, I love how that works out.

 

Lizzie 

(laughs) Yeah, so she is a spirit associated with the sea from Inuit mythology. And her myth exists across the Arctic, from Greenland to Labrador, Northern Canada, to Alaska and Siberia, where she is viewed as--

 

Zoe 

Wow.

 

Lizzie 

--one of the most important and powerful deities. Yeah.

 

Zoe 

That's a really big spread.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah, it is. And her legend is very important in daily life, as she governed sea animals such as seals and walruses.

 

Zoe 

Yes! I knew there was a walrus connection. I knew it.

 

Lizzie 

She has many names associated with her, which vary a lot by region. And some of the things recorded for her include names with translations like "the poor wife," "the girl," "she down there," "terrible one down there," "the big woman," "she who never wished to marry," "she who gives useful things," and many other names, obviously in the native languages, not in English. And yeah, I think she's awesome. So now we'll get into the legend. Do you--know anything about her legend?

 

Zoe 

Well, I'm guessing she refused to marry because of some of those names.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah (laughs).

 

Zoe 

Said she refused to marry. So that's my guess. Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

That's right. Yeah. So obviously, these tales were from oral tradition, as most are, and there are a lot of variations that varies a lot by region and just in general. I didn't include every single variation that I saw, but we'll get into, like, the main points.

 

Lizzie 

So a lot of versions start with Sedna's father wanting her to get married. And she refuses to get married to any man her father picks out for her, but she does eventually get married anyway, but not to a human.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Zoe 

Oh!

 

Lizzie 

In some she marries a dog, and in some she's wooed by and then marries a bird, often a fulmar, which is a type of seabird.

 

Zoe 

Okay.

 

Lizzie 

And the dog one--sometimes she chooses the dog and sometimes her father is kind of like, well, if you won't have any of the men then you have to marry this dog, you know.

 

Zoe 

Okay.

 

Lizzie 

And then the bird, the fulmar, offered her a happy and comfortable life.

 

Zoe 

Okay.

 

Lizzie 

And then when she goes with him, she finds out that he deceived her, and she leaves a miserable life instead.

 

Zoe 

Oh.

 

Lizzie 

And so then her father comes to visit and sees how unhappy his daughter is, and so he either tries to take her away, or else kills the bird that she married. And either way, a storm is created in retaliation, either by the deceased birds' friends, or by the bird himself if he wasn't killed.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

Sedna and her father try to escape by boat. Her father attempts to save himself by throwing her overboard.

 

Zoe 

Ah. Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah. And she manages to hold on to the boat by her fingers, and her father cuts off her fingers one by one, or sometimes her fingers followed by her hands, and her severed fingers become whales, seals and walruses, and her fingernails become whalebones.

 

Zoe 

Oh my gosh,

 

Lizzie 

Pretty crazy.

 

Zoe 

Wow. Yeah, that is crazy.

 

Lizzie 

Sidenote, I think it's so interesting that like, her story is like--it's, like, so many things. Like it's a creation story, like it's--uh, it's very cool.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm. Yeah.

 

Lizzie 

She then sinks to the bottom of the sea and becomes Sedna, the goddess.

 

Zoe 

Cool.

 

Lizzie 

She was a human girl before, if that wasn't clear.

 

Zoe 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I--yeah. Mm hmm. Interesting.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah. And now she lives at the bottom of the sea. So another version. This one is specifically from Netsilik. Sedna is an orphan who is thrown overboard by the people moving to a new settlement. She hangs on by her fingers, which are chopped off and then turn into seals, and then she sinks to the bottom of the ocean and becomes Nuliajuk.

 

Zoe 

Okay.

 

Lizzie 

AKA Sedna.

 

Zoe 

Uh huh. Uh huh.

 

Lizzie 

In a version from Baffin Island, Sedna was traveling with her family in a kayak when a storm began. Her parents blamed her for the storm and threw her overboard. She clung on to the kayak until her father severed her fingers one by one, which then transformed into sea creatures.

 

Zoe 

I see.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah, something interesting--kind of a side note. Apparently the biggest variations in her story appear in Baffin Island, which was likely due to Christian influences on her story.

 

Zoe 

Okay.

 

Lizzie 

Just a fun fact.

 

Zoe 

Interesting.

 

Lizzie 

And so sometimes the stories end with her falling to the bottom of the sea and becoming Sedna, but other times Sedna gets revenge upon her father.

 

Zoe 

Uh huh.

 

Lizzie 

Sedna's father makes it to shore unharmed, but Sedna allows dogs to chew off her father's feet and hands while he sleeps.

 

Zoe 

Ouch.

 

Lizzie 

And in at least one version, Sedna's father drowns himself and joins her at the bottom of the sea.

 

Zoe 

Nice. Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

And another variation that sometimes occurs is that she loses an eye, either during a struggle with an oar while she attempted to cling onto the boat, or because her father stabbed her with a knife.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

And there are also cases where her story is told without giving her a name. Um, a story recorded in the 1800s that relates the origin of sea mammals tells the story of a woman who had lost her husband, who lived among strangers who she relied on for charity. They decided to move locations by boat, and they decided that she was a burden to them and threw her overboard.

 

Zoe 

Mmm. Geez.

 

Lizzie 

She clung to the side of the boat, but they cut off her fingers, and they turned into a walrus, a seal and a polar bear. And the woman despaired as she sank into the water and declared that she would have revenge.

 

Zoe 

Nice.

 

Lizzie 

And now, when seals and walruses see a human, they escape to avoid the cruel fate of the woman. And the polar bear, which lives both on land and in the sea, attacks humans when it sees them out of revenge.

 

Zoe 

Nice. I like that.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah. And that story didn't call her Sedna or anything, but it's clear it's the same story.

 

Zoe 

Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. It definitely is the same story type, yeah.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah. Yeah. So there's a lot--there's a lot of variations. I think the most common ones involve her father, and her marrying an animal.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

But yeah, like, the main part of her story, the one that occurs in basically every story is her being thrown into the sea, hanging onto the boat, her fingers got chopped off, and they turn into sea creatures.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

Often seals, sometimes walruses and polar bears. And then she becomes who she is known as, the spirit, the deity, Sedna.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

So yeah. And so the revenge aspect of Sedna's story is important in understanding her place in Inuit culture. She is usually seen as a vengeful and fearsome goddess who controls animals, and therefore controls people's livelihood as obviously they rely on animals for food and clothes.

 

Zoe 

Right.

 

Lizzie 

She can grant good fortune to those who please her, and bad fortune to those who don't. And therefore, it's very important to appease her.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

Which, I think it's cool that, like, her story--she is definitely, like, a victim but she becomes extremely vengeful.

 

Zoe 

Yeah.

 

Lizzie 

I mean, she's extremely--she's very scary and fearsome, and people live in fear of her.

 

Zoe 

Yeah.

 

Lizzie 

But I-I think that's cool if that is the result of her tragic story, I guess, that she becomes vengeful. Anyway. So this varies by region, but some examples of trying to appease her include offerings such as sealskin. People would also throw broken knives, worn-out harpoon heads, and pieces of meat and bone into the water.

 

Zoe  

Okay.

 

Lizzie 

And humans must also avoid taboos that might anger the goddess, such as not adhering to rituals or other rules guiding Inuit life.

 

Zoe 

Interesting.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah, yeah. So she, like, keeps the people in check. She's like, you have to follow these rules, or you won't have animals, basically.

 

Zoe 

Okay. Yeah, that's very interesting.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah. And one important thing to mention is the relationship between human transgressions and Sedna's hair. Though Sedna's hair is not mentioned in the myth, it's an important symbol of her relationship with the Inuit and a gauge of her well-being. Human transgressions enrage Sedna, which causes her hair to become tangled and disheveled, and be full of lice and sea debris. This can also result in storms and, of course, a lack of animals that could result in famine. And when this happened it would be necessary for an angakuqq, a spiritual healer or shaman in Inuit culture, to visit her and comb and braid her hair for her.

 

Zoe 

Oh!

 

Lizzie 

That would solve the problems. It would be like, oh, we displeased you. Send a shaman, the shaman talks to you and does your hair, and then everything's fine again for a period.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah. So examples of human transgressions that can cause her hair to become dirty include violations of additional observances in the spheres of hunting, birth, and death. One example from the Cumberland Sound area of Baffin Island is that Sedna is known to dislike land animals.

 

Zoe 

Oh.

 

Lizzie 

So land and sea animals could not be hunted or eaten together.

 

Zoe 

Interesting.

 

Lizzie 

And another example I saw was that hunters had to pour fresh water into the mouths of animals they just killed because this is a time when they're thought to be especially thirsty.

 

Zoe 

Interesting. Okay.

 

Lizzie 

So these are examples of rules that people can disobey that cause her anger--

 

Zoe 

Would make her mad. Yeah.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah.

 

Zoe 

Cool.

 

Lizzie 

And also, it's noted that the complexity of these rules is greater in coastal areas, as opposed to inland areas.

 

Zoe 

That makes a lot of sense.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah. And this may have to do with the volatile nature of the marine environment, which is obviously more of a threat to coastal groups.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm. Exactly. That's exactly what I was thinking, is that if you're closer to the ocean, you're more concerned about enraging the ocean gods than if you live, like, in the mid--in a totally landlocked area, then it's like, well, that's not great. But we're not that close.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah, it's more--it's more of a present threat when that is the environment that you're in.

 

Zoe 

Yeah, if you're not as close to the ocean, it's not as big a part of your life and not something you need to worry about as much as if you're close and it's constantly on your mind. It's a huge part of like, how you make your livelihood.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah, exactly. And also, sometimes it's part of her myth that she rules Adlivun, the Inuit underworld.

 

Zoe 

Ooh.

 

Lizzie 

Which I don't have, like, that many details on it. But that's-that's pretty cool.

 

Zoe 

Is it like an undersea thing? Is that--are they associated with each other? Is the underworld, like, under the ocean?

 

Lizzie 

I-I don't know if it's meant to be under the sea, but it's definitely meant to be like, a cold, frigid kind of wasteland type of thing. Okay.

 

Zoe 

Very interesting. Not very nice.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah. To my understanding, the underworld is separate from her, like, bottom of the sea home. It's like, two different domains. That's my understanding.

 

Zoe 

Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. So she's also very powerful.

 

Lizzie 

She's very powerful, and in many different ways.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

 But so--yeah, what do you think so far?

 

Zoe 

I have a lot of thoughts. My first thought, which you might have mentioned, you might not mention--or you might mention, you might not mention is that she reminds me a lot of Iara.

 

Lizzie 

Oh yeah! Yeah, no, I actually hadn't thought of that.

 

Zoe 

Because she also had an experience where she was being attacked by male members of her family, and then went into the water and through the water became a goddess sort of figure, but also is considered--is considered both a goddess sort of figure and also a vengeful spirit figure, but also still very respected in many ways. Iara is a super common name for girls in Brazil, even though she's kind of a scary figure, which is really interesting. And so she's not just like all evil. She's also like, kind of a positive figure or like a respected figure as well.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah.

 

Zoe 

And so that sort of reminds me of her because it's the same idea of, she was being--and I think there was--there might have also been some marriage involved. There might not have been I can't remember. I think--she was being attacked by her brother is what I most remember, and that she escaped by like running into the river and then became a river goddess.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah, and we also talked in the Iara episode about how lonely Iara must be. You know.

 

Lizzie 

I mean, that's a theme in Sedna's story as well. And also Iara is often depicted as a mermaid, right?

 

Zoe 

Yes, she is. Yeah, she has a lot--

 

Lizzie 

As is Sedna.

 

Zoe 

Really? That's so cool.

 

Lizzie 

Spoiler for the--later in the notes. But yeah (laughs).

 

Zoe  

That's so cool.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah, they are very similar.

 

Zoe 

Um, and then also she kind of reminded--yeah, she also kind of reminded me of Perchta in this specific way that--first of all, I don't think Sedna is specifically associated with like, the winter. But I think I had that association simply because I know she's associated with the--

 

Lizzie 

The Arctic.

 

Zoe 

--arctic areas. So like, it's colder.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah.

 

Zoe 

But Perchta is kind of associated with upholding of specific observances and ritual. And--

 

Lizzie 

Yeah.

 

Zoe 

--in that way, she reminds me of that, though she's sort of like this goddess figure that's in charge of upholding, um--making sure you're following certain rituals, you're eating certain things on certain days--

 

Lizzie 

Yeah.

 

Zoe 

--you're upholding certain feasts, you're not working on certain days is a big thing for Perchta. And then for this, it's like, you're not mixing land animals with aquatic animals.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah, definitely.

 

Zoe 

And you're treating the animals that you've killed, like, properly, and things like that.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah. Yeah.

 

Zoe 

So they're both sort of associated with the upholding of certain ritual aspects, which is interesting.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah, they both act as sort of, like, moral--

 

Zoe 

Yeah, moral guides.

 

Lizzie 

Judges.

 

Zoe 

Yeah. Um, and also interesting, because if like, Sedna is kind of a frightening figure--I mean, I guess it makes sense that the moral guides are also kind of frightening, because it's like, what will happen to you if you don't follow the moral guide?

 

Lizzie 

Yeah, I mean, the way authority figures are frightening, and the way she can be, you know, like her--she can take out her rage on you extremely easily. And you have to kind of live in fear of that.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean, this is also very--it's also feels kind of interesting, what the story says, at least the very first story that you told, which I think you said was the most popular one?

 

Lizzie 

Yeah.

 

Zoe 

Um, is--sort of says about marriage.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah.

 

Zoe 

And, like, relationships between--

 

Lizzie 

Yeah.

 

Zoe 

--women and men in that sort of society, and that she marries this guy, because--or this bird, because he says, like, oh, your life is gonna be so great. And you're going to be really happy. But then it turns out it's a lie and she's actually miserable, which I feel like it's something that probably a lot of women could relate to.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah, you're probably right.

 

Zoe 

--is entering a marriage thinking, this will be great, this guy said, he's going to care for me, we're going to be happy. And then it just turns out to not work out so well for whatever reason. Marriage is complicated. Relationships are complicated. People change and people aren't always the person that you think they're going to be. And then sort of the question of like the father, and the role of the father, in the story being like, first of all, the person who makes the daughter marry, um, and also then the person that takes over the woman again, after she is no longer married to the husband, and this sort of like relationship between the father and the husband as sort of the guardians of women in a lot of sort of stories.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah, that's true.

 

Zoe 

And ideas, societally.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah.

 

Zoe 

If that makes sense.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah. No, I see what you mean. I, um, I'm not sure, actually, because I don't know exactly what the Inuit family structure looked like. I don't know if it was for any sort of forced marriage or anything like that.

 

Zoe 

Yeah.

 

Lizzie 

So I can't say for certain, but I do definitely understand that analysis.

 

Zoe 

Yeah, I mean, this is not--I don't also know that much about Inuit family structure, and this is based on a pretty western, like, sort of European, American idea of marriage and gender analysis in society. But it is interesting to examine, like--

 

Lizzie 

Yeah.

 

Zoe 

--what the story--I perceive the story to say, and if there's a different, like, there's different roles, I'm also interested in hearing about that as well because obviously, there are different perspectives and different ways this could be interpreted that I don't know about.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah.

 

Zoe 

Because I'm not an expert.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah, I view her, like, refusal to marry a human man and her then deciding--or not deciding, but like, resulting in her marrying an animal as, like, her own transgressions against the rules of society, you know? Like--

 

Zoe 

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

 

Lizzie 

And that-and that is what then leads to the other events, and it leads to her death and then leads to her sort of vengeful spirit self who then punishes other people's transgressions. You know what I mean?

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm. Yeah.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah. Like, to me, I have to, like, think about the analysis where, like, okay, but she also transgresses societal norms.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

Even though later in life she will trans--she will punish people who do the same thing. And like, well what to make of that. But--

 

Zoe 

Oh, that's interesting. Yeah.

 

Lizzie 

But like, 'cause, like, she wasn't punished by, like, nature or, like, spirits, she was punished by other people. And she then becomes part of nature and then punishes people, you know? Like it's kind of opposite.

 

Zoe 

Yeah, unless, like, it's her punishment/fate to continue to punish people for making like, similar thing choices, right?

 

Lizzie 

True, you could also view it like that. Like, that's her--that's her punishment for marrying a bird.

 

Zoe 

Her, like, Sisyphus--her Sisyphus moment of like, yeah, she's forever condemned to punish people, or whatever.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah, yeah. And I do think that her existence is really lonely, just sitting at the bottom of the sea. She's separate from her community, or--and from any people. Like, the sea creatures are like her children, but she doesn't--

 

Zoe 

But also then she has some cool sea creatures to hang out with, like, I don't know.

 

Lizzie 

(laughs) I mean, true.

 

Zoe 

I don't know.

 

Lizzie 

I mean, maybe she's--maybe she's not lonely, maybe so--maybe it's like a Iara moment, where it's like maybe she loves her life and loves being apart from everyone and just is like chillin, you know?

 

Lizzie 

We don't know. But I-I do think that there's, like, a loneliness to her story, 'cause she is, like, pushed out of human society and her fingers are cut off. Like, that--that is tragic.

 

Zoe 

Yeah.

 

Zoe 

I mean, that is--that is brutal and upsetting. Like, that aspect of the story is brutal and upsetting every time you hear it. Like, it's so incredibly painful and intimate.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah, it is extremely upsetting. It's really sad. And you have to think about, like, her trying to hang on with every last finger. Which then is cut off.

 

Zoe 

Yeah, oh my gosh. Ugh, yeah. It's awful. Like, truly.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah. But, like, life comes out of it. Like, she creates seals and walruses.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm. That's good (Lizzie laughs). And like, seals and walruses are so important, like, when you're living that--like, in those societies, because--

 

Lizzie 

Yeah, they're very important animals.

 

Zoe 

They're food, you use them for clothes, things like that. Like, they're so important.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah. And she she becomes so important because of her association with--

 

Lizzie 

--with sea animals, and like, animals in general, because sometimes she controls all animals, even land animals.

 

Zoe 

Interesting. Okay.

 

Zoe 

Yeah.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah, she can withhold the animals from people if she chooses.

 

Zoe 

Interesting.

 

Lizzie 

Even, like, caribou and bears.

 

Zoe 

Yeah, crazy.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

But yeah, so the Sedna myth is really fascinating for a lot of reasons. So then her story contain a great amount of power, and this permeates all aspects of Inuit life. It's not just an important story. It's also something that governs people's daily life and their rituals, and the rules that they follow, and the food that they get, you know.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

And according to Harold Seidelman in "The Inuit imagination: Arctic myth and sculpture," the Sedna myth raises the most profound fears of Inuit life, notably fear of the elements and fear of isolation and loss of human identity.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

And the tragedy of her myth is her separation from family, community, and the human world. Her punishment for violating essential rules of behavior, such as refusing to marry, is eternal separation from humankind. And it's often noted how separate she is and how lonely she is at the bottom of the freezing ocean with no one around.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm. Yeah.

 

Lizzie  

And I also find it interesting that Sedna's state is still controlled by her community, even after she becomes the spirit. The people live in fear of upsetting her because she could withhold animals from them. But Sedna's own wellbeing is also determined by them, since their transgressions caused her hair to tangle.

 

Lizzie 

So it's not exactly even in power, but like, it is mutual, like it's a cycle.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Zoe 

Yeah.

 

Lizzie 

That people need her, but she also needs them.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

Which--and I felt like there's multiple ways you could see this. You could see her as a victim--even after she dies and becomes a very, very powerful deity, she's still subject to human activity, and like the things of her community does. But at the same time, I mean, she's obviously extremely powerful. Like, she gets to decide if humans are behaving badly. She can punish them. She obviously has a lot of power in this situation. She controls the sea animals, but she controls people's livelihood more even than just the animals. Because obviously, they're incredibly important in many aspects of human life.

 

Zoe 

It feels to me like a big part of it is kind of mutual-mutual exchange and mutual care. Because--

 

Lizzie 

Yeah.

 

Zoe 

Sort of like, do this thing, like, treat the animals well and properly, like, the thing about pouring water into the animals' mouths after you kill them in order to make sure their, like, thirst is satisfied is, you know, it's an act of care. It's treating the animals that you need for survival--you kill for survival with respect, you know, and--

 

Lizzie 

Exactly, yeah.

 

Zoe 

And like, the image of the shaman who goes to untangle and comb her hair, it's like, you know, it's just an act of care. It's taking care of Sedna, like being kind and gentle to Sedna.

 

Lizzie 

Definitely. That's a very intimate act, exactly. Yeah.

 

Zoe 

Yeah.

 

Lizzie 

Giving her some moments of like, care and tenderness.

 

Zoe 

Yeah, that is very much just, you know, you take care of each other. And in exchange, you know, you get the-the animals continue to calm and you continue to get the food and stuff that you need from them, and you continue to be able to interact in the same way.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah!

 

Zoe 

Like, in the healthy way. And if you sort of mess up and, like--or don't treat them properly, then of course, they're gonna get mad and like, be mad that you disrespected them because it's gotta--there's gotta be this level of mutual respect between the two groups.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah. And I think it's clear from my view, but like the rules that she upholds are not just arbitrary, and they don't serve Sedna specifically. They are--a lot of them are about respect for the environment and, like, proper rituals. Some of them have to do with, like, bodily cleanliness. But--

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

--yeah, many of them have to do with nature and the environment, like respecting the animals that you kill and that kind of thing. And yeah, like I was saying, like another layer to this relationship is that many of the rules governing the Inuit people that Sedna enforces directly relate to interactions with nature and the environment. And when people don't respect the environment, Sedna's hair becomes dirty and tangled, which seems to act as an analogy against pollution and treating nature badly.

 

Zoe 

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

Lizzie 

Like Sedna, pollution also results in the scarcity of resources and famine. So the relationship between Sedna and the Inuit is indicative of humans' relationship with nature, it's reciprocal. You respect the earth, the earth provides you with more abundant resources. If you treat the earth badly, you will suffer.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

There's like an environmental aspect to it as well.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

Also, there's, like, an aspect of, like--and this is, like, more of kind of a modern view, but of keeping Inuit traditions alive.

 

Zoe 

Yeah, yeah.

 

Lizzie 

And it's like--I mean, I'll kind of talk about this a bit more later. But like, she is sort of--in a way, she's like a benefactor of the Inuit. She gives them the animals, sometimes she also takes them away. But yeah, I think she's just very, very interesting. I feel like there's a--like, a lot of analysis to be had in her story.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

What do you think is the significance of, like, the animal marriage?

 

Zoe 

Well, it's interesting. I think your idea of a transgression against, like, nature is an interesting way to interpret it because I think, again, as I said, the idea of her then being sort of sentenced to punish those who commit similar transgressions against nature is an interesting fate to have--interesting and sad.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah.

 

Zoe 

Because she, like, committed a transgression. When it's interpreted as the father being like, well, if you won't marry a man, just marry this dog, I think it feels pretty straightforward as a disrespectful thing that happens to her because she refuses to marry. But otherwise, like, I don't really know, I guess.

 

Lizzie 

Sometimes she has dog children.

 

Zoe 

Yeah, I mean, I guess it could also just show--

 

Lizzie 

Just a fun fact for you.

 

Zoe 

That is a fun fact. Thank you (laughs). It could also just show, like, she has this sort of connectivity with nature, even before she becomes a goddess. So, like, when she--her fingers get cut off, and they become whales and walruses and seals. We already saw she had that, like, level of connection with animals already that, like, other people around her didn't have. Maybe. I don't know,

 

Lizzie 

It is so interesting that, like, her fingers become sea creatures. Like, she--like you said, she must have had some sort of connection with the sea, like, the land.

 

Zoe 

Yeah.

 

Lizzie 

In order for that to happen.

 

Zoe 

Yeah.

 

Lizzie 

Like, there's a reason why she specifically--her fingers turned to seals, right. Something about her specifically must be fateful that that happens.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm. Yeah, I agree.

 

Lizzie 

I'm sure it doesn't just happen to just anyone who loses their fingers in the ocean.

 

Zoe 

I think it--I mean, a lot of the times when such events happen, it feels sort of like a condemnation of the injustice that's being, like, done upon the person. Like--

 

Lizzie 

Yeah.

 

Zoe 

--she is being treated really badly by being like, mutilated in this way. And therefore, the powers that be in this world can't, like, undo it, but they can give a sort of new life and a sense of purpose to her fingers or whatever other piece of hers--

 

Lizzie 

Yeah.

 

Zoe 

--getting cut off.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah. I mean, it's beautiful that, like, from violent mutilation can come life.

 

Zoe 

Yeah. I mean, this is a common theme in mythology, to be honest.

 

Lizzie 

There's so much, like, circle of life stuff happening, like, cycles. And--

 

Zoe 

Yeah.

 

Lizzie 

--relationships being reciprocal and all that stuff. Like, I don't know. It's very, like, balanced in this story.

 

Lizzie 

Like, there's something bad, something good comes of it. And yeah, you're right. That means--that's definitely, like, a thing in mythology, like, for sure.

 

Zoe 

Yeah.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

Do you know what parallel I saw of Sedna that I thought was interesting, and that I hadn't thought of until it was brought up? Iphigenia.

 

Zoe 

I also see that because of the father connection, and the forced marriage connection.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah, that, and then, like, the murder of Iphigenia from Greek mythology--

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

--by her father, too.

 

Zoe 

Yeah.

 

Lizzie 

Then--well, like, 'cause obviously in a lot of versions of Iphigenia, she doesn't die. She goes and serves a goddess and--

 

Lizzie 

--possibly becomes a goddess herself. And that's kind of the same thing with Sedna because she gets new spiritual life after this mutilation, like she-she then becomes a powerful spirit.

 

Zoe 

Yeah.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm. Exactly. Yeah.

 

Lizzie 

That was pretty interesting.

 

Zoe 

Yeah, I do think that's an interesting connection.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah. And I think in Iphigenia, it's very, like, this woman's life ended before it began, and it's, like, such a tragedy, but it's like necessary for war, blah, blah, blah, which like, obviously, Sedna's story is not about war (laughs). But--yeah.

 

Zoe 

I mean, I think it's just also like, you shouldn't treat people this way.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah, yeah. It can be as simple as that.

 

Zoe 

Don't throw someone overboard and cut off their fingers one by one. You know?

 

Lizzie 

Yeah, don't do that.

 

Zoe 

That's bad. Don't do that, you know, is sometimes--is, like, a very simple interpretation.

 

Lizzie 

She will come back and punish you.

 

Zoe 

Yeah, she'll have dogs gnaw off your hands and feet.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah. And like, she is depicted as vengeful, but I also feel like she's-she's very reasonable. Like, she wants people to do things in a specific way. She doesn't, like--she's not, like, fickle. She's not selfish.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm. Yeah.

 

Lizzie 

Like, she's definitely fearsome, but I don't think she's unfair.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm. Yeah, I mean, also in general, like, the ocean is a scary force of nature.

 

Lizzie 

The ocean is so scary.

 

Zoe 

Like, it's very helpful and important in many ways, but also absolutely terrifying and a--like, impossible to control and can be incredibly deadly in the--

 

Lizzie 

Yeah.

 

Zoe 

--if you're unlucky. So--

 

Lizzie 

Yeah.

 

Zoe 

--it makes sense that, uh--

 

Lizzie 

And it's also an important resource, and it's filled with water, like--

 

Zoe 

Water and animals--

 

Lizzie 

A life-giving resource, like, yeah.

 

Zoe 

Well, not seawater. But, yeah.

 

Lizzie 

I mean, you can filter that water, can't you?

 

Zoe 

I don't-I don't know.

 

Lizzie 

Okay, I don't know anything about how drinking water is made.

 

Zoe 

Anyways.

 

Lizzie 

Anyway (both laughs). Um--

 

Zoe 

Um--

 

Lizzie 

Anyway, so back to animal marriage. So in versions where she marries a bird, it's usually a fulmar, which is a carrion-eating bird, and therefore spiritually dangerous.

 

Zoe 

Yeah, that makes sense.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah. They're known to have an oily and unpleasant taste and smell, and yet they are still hunted and eaten. The fulmars are often the first bird to appear in the spring, and are therefore a welcome change after months of eating walrus and bear meat. Therefore, they can be seen as a symbol of superficial attractiveness. They represent the promise of warmth, light, and abundance of food that comes with spring, but the taste of their flesh is unpleasant. And I feel like this representation can be seen inside the story, where the fulmar promises her abundance and a life of luxury, but in reality of life with the fulmar, it's desolate and miserable.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

So that's the significance of the fulmar, possibly. And as for the dog--

 

Lizzie 

Maybe.

 

Zoe 

I don't know.

 

Zoe 

Do you think there's, like, a sense that, you know, part of her is also in the wrong for being tempted by this life of abundance and, like, luxury, and then that's, like, a shallow promise? You know what I mean?

 

Lizzie 

Maybe, or more--or maybe it's just kind of like a--not necessarily condemning, but sort of a warning against superficial stuff.

 

Zoe 

Uh huh. Yeah.

 

Lizzie 

I don't know. But as for the dog, the only thing I could find is that because they lived in a close relationship with humans, dogs were thought to have no souls of their own, as well as no spiritual powers.

 

Zoe 

Oh.

 

Lizzie 

In Inuit culture. Therefore, your choice to marry a dog represents a rejection of both the human world and the spirit world, and she puts herself outside of the protection of either.

 

Zoe 

Mm. Okay.

 

Lizzie 

She doesn't marry humans, so she's not in the human world, but also the dog has no spiritual powers. Thus, she's just on her own.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

So as for, like, the feminist implications.

 

Zoe 

Uh huh.

 

Lizzie 

So as we see in a lot of post-colonial spaces, the Eurocentric colonizing forces made the state of women's rights much worse for Inuit women.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

Prior to colonization, Inuit women were respected by their communities, there was equal division of labor between men and women, and women were allowed to occupy influential social positions. However, these views were altered by colonial forces, and women were subjected to western misogyny, and have been. And this is important to know when discussing contemporary views of Sedna, and particularly as it relates to art.

 

Zoe 

Oh.

 

Lizzie 

Modern Inuit use art as a means to strengthen cultural identity and connect to their culture. Mythology is an important source for Inuit artists, and Sedna is depicted very frequently, and notably by a lot of female artists.

 

Zoe 

Cool!

 

Lizzie 

Sedna occupies an important maternal position, and she can represent female power and a subversion of the male-dominated society that colonization brought. She is used as a feminist symbol in a lot of art, as well as a symbol of Inuit culture and identity. And something I feel like is important to know is that Sedna is one of the most important or possibly the most important of all the deities in Inuit mythology. Which, okay, there aren't that many important ones, but, like, she is very, very important.

 

Zoe 

Yeah, that's very cool.

 

Lizzie 

And notably, she is used in contemporary art to express threats against the Inuit. So one example is Ningeokuluk Teevee's drawing Untitled (Sedna by the Sea), where she depicts Sedna sitting on a rock by the ocean, smoking a cigarette while looking at the land littered with debris while a large truck spills oil nearby.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

And so Sedna is used here as a comment on concerns that threaten life in the Arctic, and she is depicted looking dejected and apathetic, having lost control for domain by the effective colonizing forces. And this drawing expresses what happens when people preach respect for the sea, and also it represents a similar disregard for Inuit culture and light.

 

Zoe 

Yeah. It's a very powerful image.

 

Lizzie 

Definitely. And younger generations of Inuit are fascinated by Sedna. And in addition to feminist works, Sedna is also invoked in order to explore culturally significant relationships between the human world and the nonhuman world. Sedna is used to fortify Inuit culture and identity, and particularly by women artists who are at the forefront of leading the fight to improve the well being of their communities. And I feel like--I hope that I impressed this with what I have said so far, but like, I feel like Sedna--she is a very Inuit-specific figure. Like, she couldn't just exist anywhere. Her story is not one that you could place in any other culture.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

Like, she is very indicative of Inuit values and culture.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm. Yeah.

 

Zoe 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

 

Lizzie 

And the specific landscape in the Arctic as well. But, um, I hope I've impressed that view. So something interesting is that despite it not being mentioned in those versions of the myth. I alluded to this earlier, or said it outright (laughs), she's often portrayed as half-human and half-sea creature. So like, in a mermaid-like way.

 

Lizzie 

Her depictions in sculpture in particular, but also other art forms show her with the tail of a fish, seal or whale.

 

Zoe 

Nice!

 

Lizzie 

Similar to a mermaid! Yeah, pretty cool.

 

Zoe 

Cool. I love the seal and whale idea. 'Cause that's pretty cool.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah, yeah. It is-it is pretty fun.

 

Zoe 

Yeah.

 

Lizzie 

And like, she's not mentioned as being half-fish or anything in most versions. Her form-her physical appearance really isn't said in her story.

 

Zoe 

Besides having her hair that's, like, tangled.

 

Lizzie 

But even the thing about her hair isn't said in the story.

 

Zoe 

Uh huh.

 

Lizzie 

Like, that's a cultural thing, but it's not--it's not in the story.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah, so like, why is she depicted as a mermaid, when she's not really described that way. It can be a way to show that Sedna is a supernatural being, indicating her transformation and her association with sea animals while herself being neither human nor an animal.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

Because human women and sea creatures both exist in the natural world and are depicted by Inuit artists. So the representation of Sedna as being half-human and half-sea creature is like a unique iconography that embodies her story and points to her spiritual associations. It's unique to her, it shows the supernatural qualities and you wouldn't, like, look at that. And, like, you wouldn't see just a human woman and say, oh, yeah, that's Sedna. Like, there has to be unique things, although she's often depicted without her fingers, for obvious reasons.

 

Zoe 

That makes sense. Yeah.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah.

 

Zoe 

And that's really cool, too.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah. And I think it's interesting that there's, like, a very visual, like, very important part of her story. And it's the part where she is hanging on to the boat and getting her fingers cut off. But that's, like, rare to depict in art. But I think that's fair, because it's, like, very violent, you know. It's a very, like--

 

Zoe  

I mean, it's definitely a powerful moment, but it's like, it's probably one that's hard to--that's like, would be difficult and emotional--like emotionally, like, challenging to depict an art, you know, as an artist.

 

Lizzie 

It's a striking visual, but it's not--and it's like, the--it's like the thing that appears in, like, all of our stories, but it's not what people depict, and I think that makes a lot of sense.

 

Zoe 

So like, they don't want to focus on, like, this one moment of trauma and pain. They focus on, like, what comes after as a result of it, you know?

 

Lizzie 

Yeah. And like, her story is very important. Her story is told to everyone. But her presence in everyday life seems to be more important in art, rather than, like, scenes from her story. That's--that's my impression. I can't say that that's, like, a fact, because I'm just saying that, but yeah. And there are, of course, also depictions of sadness, story, and literature. And her story has been adopted by Inuit writers many times.

 

Zoe 

Cool.

 

Lizzie 

And one example I have is Alootook Ipellie's 1992 short story, "Summit With Sedna, the Mother of Sea Beasts."

 

Zoe 

Cool.

 

Lizzie 

So this story depicts Sedna as a survivor of sexual abuse, who cannot experience sexual pleasure.

 

Zoe 

Oh.

 

Lizzie 

And then a shaman needs to go and attend to her and solve her problem. Yeah.

 

Zoe 

Interesting.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah. And the story is another example of using the figure of Sedna as a way to discuss threats to the Inuit community. In this case, not only sexual abuse, but also the effects of colonialism and the mistreatment of women. And it also impressed the importance of solidarity among Inuit peoples and preserving Inuit culture. And this isn't, I believe, discussed explicitly in the story, but like, the whole--the problem of sexual abuse. It was a problem that that has faced Inuit communities, specifically during the time of residential schools.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

So yeah, that's an example of a short story. It's online if you want to read it.

 

Zoe 

Cool.

 

Lizzie 

Also, speaking of the sea being terrifying--this segue makes sense in my head. It might not, realistically. There is a dwarf planet named after her.

 

Zoe 

Really?

 

Lizzie 

Okay, I feel like, the sea is terrifying, space is terrifying, kind of the same thing, whatever. Anyway.

 

Lizzie 

So it was--okay. So Sedna, the dwarf planet, was discovered in 2003 by American astronomers. And also this was in the period before the scientific debates about what constitutes a planet occurred in 2006. Do you remember this? The whole--it was a huge thing when Pluto--

 

Zoe 

Okay.

 

Zoe 

I do remember the whole Pluto is no longer a planet, got demoted. So was this--so Sedna was a planet.

 

Lizzie 

She--okay. Well, there was debates at the time.

 

Zoe 

Did this start the debates?

 

Lizzie 

It didn't start the debates. It was like--this was before, it was like two years before. But there was debate at the time of whether Sedna could possibly be a 10th planet.

 

Zoe 

Oh, cool.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah.

 

Zoe 

That'd be exciting for those-those astronomers.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah (laughs). Then Pluto got demoted. I actually remember vaguely being in elementary school and people were upset about it.

 

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

 

Lizzie 

They were like, this is so sad, justice for Pluto, and that kind of thing. Just unlocked that memory.

 

Zoe 

That's exactly what they were saying.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah (laughs). Anyway, so Sedna the dwarf planet is extremely distant from the sun. It is three times farther than Pluto or Neptune.

 

Zoe 

Geez.

 

Lizzie 

And also has the second-longest orbit of any known celestial body--

 

Zoe 

Wow.

 

Lizzie 

 --of approximately 11,400 years.

 

Zoe 

Cool.

 

Lizzie 

I don't know much about astronomy, so I was reading a bunch of stuff about Sedna the planet--dwarf planet, and it impressed upon me that it's very important astronomically, but I did not understand all of it. So if anyone's into astronomy, you should look it up.

 

Zoe 

Cool. Nice.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah. And so one of the astronomers that discovered Sedna, I read a article that he published to his website in, like, 2004. And here's a quote from it. "Our newly discovered object is the coldest, most distant place known in the solar system. So we feel it is appropriate to name it in honor of Sedna, the Inuit goddess of the sea, who is thought to live at the bottom of the frigid Arctic Ocean.

 

Zoe 

Yeah! That is appropriate. And that's cool.

 

Lizzie 

It is cool. And I do want to say it was--this was written in 2004, that's probably not current, the thing about it being the most distant and coldest place in the solar system. Yeah.

 

Zoe 

Mmm. So true.

 

Lizzie 

But yeah, I think that's--so true. Well, first of all, I think it's cool that she has an astronomical body named after it, and that it's something actually quite significant, not, like, a random meteor or something.

 

Zoe 

Yeah. Yeah, not some random meteor. Ugh.

 

Lizzie 

(laughs) I don't--maybe meteors aren't that random. Maybe that's--I don't know anything about astronomy, to be honest. Anyway, though.

 

Zoe 

I don't either. It's fine. It's fine.

 

Lizzie 

(laughs) And also, like, the reason for naming it Sedna. It's so like, cutting and, like, sad.

 

Zoe 

It's appropriate.

 

Lizzie 

It is appropriate. It's--I mean, it's-it's sad. Like, this is the view of Sedna, that she's extremely cold and lonely all the time. Probably she is. And I think I think it's fun to be like, here's her at the bottom of the sea and here's her in the middle of the vast solar system.

 

Zoe 

Yeah, that is cool. You know, she's a very powerful and significant figure. And--

 

Lizzie 

Yes.

 

Zoe 

--very interesting figures as well.

 

Lizzie 

She is.

 

Zoe 

Yeah. Thank you for telling us about her. It's really interesting.

 

Lizzie 

I really like her. I really liked reading about her. And I encourage others to read about her as well.

 

Zoe 

Yeah.

 

Lizzie 

Because I think her story is so interesting. And I think it's really cool that her story can be used in a sense of preserving Inuit culture and ideals, and just in general, like a symbol of fighting for the Arctic, because obviously, there are many struggles of the Inuit people face. Sedna can be kind of a symbol for these fights. And I think that's great. I think it's great that she permeates daily life and it extends to Inuit people's fight against their colonizers.

 

Zoe 

Yeah.

 

Lizzie 

I think it's beautiful. I know that she's very scary and fearsome, but her story is also very beautiful.

 

Zoe 

I think she's right to be scary and fearsome.

 

Lizzie 

Yeah.

 

Zoe 

In our show notes and episode description, we're going to have some resources about how you can help the Inuit people in their continuing fight to save the Arctic and to fight against the continuing colonization of their land and resources.

 

Lizzie 

Yes.

 

Zoe 

So please check that out. And thank you so much.

 

Lizzie 

Great.

 

Zoe 

Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed, please feel free to subscribe, leave a review, tell all your friends and we'll be back here in two weeks with another episode

 

Lizzie 

Thank you!

 

Zoe 

Buh-bye.

 

Zoe 

Mytholadies podcast is produced by Elizabeth Lacroix and Zoe Koeninger. Today's episode was researched and presented by Elizabeth Lacroix. You can find us on Instagram and Twitter @Mytholadies, and visit us on our website at mytholadies.com. Our cover is by Helena Cailleaux. Our music was written and performed by Icarus Tyree. Thanks for listening.