60. Yemoja (Yoruba Mythology)

[intro music]

Lizzie 

Hello, and welcome to Mytholadies, the podcast where we talk about women from mythology and folklore all over the world. We're your hosts.

Zoe 

I'm Zoe.

Lizzie 

And I'm Lizzie. And how are you today, Zoe?

Zoe 

I'm pleased to inform you that it is cold again, here. It is cool. The- it rained a lot on. Was it Sunday or Saturday? And now it is pleasantly cool out. So that's really nice. Yeah, that's my weather report for you.

Lizzie 

It actually rained here too. But I live in the Netherlands, so. What are you gonna do.

Zoe 

Are you an umbrella believer or not, Lizzie? Do you believe in umbrellas?

Lizzie 

I usually don't use an umbrella like I own umbellas but I I'd rather just have like a hood and like, keep my head down and suffer. You know? What about you?

Zoe 

Yes, I'm also I am an umbrella denier. I don't believe that umbrellas are actually an effective way of preventing the rain from hitting you. So I have a raincoat. And that is all I will employ to protect me from the elements. Because, you know, like, if it's windy, holding something above your head isn't going to help you. So.

Lizzie 

What shirt are you wearing right now?

Zoe 

I'm wearing my "I heart Swedish girls" shirt.

Lizzie 

I didn't realize that you had or I forgot that you had one.

Zoe 

Yeah, I got one when I was in Sweden. I had to complete the meme obviously.

Lizzie 

Amazing.

Zoe 

Yes. Lizzie and I and— does Sara have one too?

Lizzie 

Sara had one. I haven't seen her wear it in a really long time.

Zoe 

Well, our friend Sara I had one for a while and we all got I heart Swedish girl shirts at one point. So.

Lizzie 

It brings me joy. It's a great shirt.

Zoe 

That's your unofficial Mytholadies merch of the day. An I heart Swedish girls.

Lizzie 

Yeah.

Zoe 

Yeah. From Sweden from it. We got them in Sweden. To clarify.

Lizzie 

Yeah, authentic.

Zoe 

Authentic. Swedish tour shops merch right here. Yeah. Lizzie, how are you?

Lizzie 

I'm fine. Yeah, I don't know. It was raining, it's cold here. But also, I'm going to Scotland tomorrow.

Zoe 

So you're gonna get more rain and cold, probably.

Lizzie 

Yeah, actually. It's raining there too. So yeah, well, I'm excited, I've never been to Scotland. I have some old, I have some old pounds that I'm taking, like paper notes, which they don't make anymore. But apparently you can trade them in for the current like plastic notes.

Zoe 

They've—oh, plastic. Okay. I understand now.

Lizzie 

Yeah. But that's okay. Like very, very old pounds my mom gave me like years ago when she went to London. So I just kept them. I'm like, I'll go to the UK one day and like use these. And now they don't, now they don't make them anymore.

Zoe 

Or you could keep them if you're like someone who wants to start collecting foreign currency.

Lizzie 

The thing is, they don't want you trade in the fives and the tens, they only want you to trade in the twenties. And I have a couple of twenties. So I'm gonna hang on to the fives, the five and the ten that I have because they're worthless. But maybe it'll be worth something someday.

Zoe 

But 20 pounds is a decent amount of pounds. So yeah, maybe I don't know if I do something with that. A sandwich maybe?

Lizzie 

Yeah, an airport sandwich.

Zoe 

An I heart Scottish girls shirt probably.

Lizzie 

Oh, I should get that. And if they have that I want it.

Zoe 

Okay. Go around Europe collecting I heart X girls shirts.

Lizzie 

Exactly. Anyway, though, before we begin, just a quick reminder that you should donate to our ko-fi because we currently do this show for no money and we don't have sponsors. And if you are able to we would appreciate payment.

Zoe 

Also, we have bonus episodes, so you should donate and listen to them. We have a into fun bonus episodes where we talk about different books that are relevant to mythology and folklore. We talk about Daughter of the Moon Goddess and A Thousand Ships. And those are both tied to our last two themed episodes about moon goddesses and women of the Trojan War. So you should check them out. They're both pretty fun.

Lizzie 

Exactly. And so now so we who are we talking about today?

Zoe 

Today, we're talking about Yemoja, also known as Iemanja, Yemanja, Yemaya. She has a lot of different names. We'll talk about why in a second. But yeah, have you heard of her?

Lizzie 

Yeah, she's Brazilian, right?

Zoe 

Yeah. Well, so she is very popular in Brazil and in South America in general, as I will talk about—

Lizzie 

She's like a syncretized goddess, right?

Zoe 

Yeah, so she's originally an orisha. Yeah, so she's originally from West Africa, but she is now very popular in South America, as well as places in the Caribbean and Central America too, so. And so because basically already been implied, but we'll be discussing, basically, implying discussion of the slave trade and slavery throughout this episode because of the origins of her worship and how she's spread across the world. And also a trigger warning for sexual assault at a certain point. So yeah, so yeah, Yemoja is... like she has so many names. I was really having trouble figuring out which name I wanted to put as like the title of the episode. I decided to go with Yemoja because that seems to be like the Yoruba name for her. It comes from yeye meeting mother, omo, meaning children and eja, meaning fish. So basically, her name can be translated to mother whose children are fish or mother of fish.

Lizzie 

Cool!

Zoe 

Yeah. So she is often depicted as a mermaid so half woman, half fish with the tail, very fun. And she is the Yoruba mother of all orishas. She's the embodiment of fertility, abundance and life. And associated with both water and food, like the fish that her name alludes to, the river she's associated with the River Ogun in Nigeria. That's the main river that she's associated with. And she's like the leader of all, she's like the primary river Orisha in Yoruba mythology. And there's a temple that's been built to her and the Ibora quarter of the city of Abẹokuta. And she's also associated with a stream near one of her temples in Ibadan city. And also she's associated with the sea, although that's more of what she's associated with in South America in like in the Western Hemisphere. In Yoruba mythology, she is, there's another Orisha that's more associated with the sea, but she sort of takes on a bigger role. Once she traveled over to South America and Central America. She's generally seen as a mother figure. However, if she loses her temper, she can be quite wrathful, flooding streams and rivers. And she's associated with the moon, water and femininity as well as parenting child safety, love and healing. And, yeah, so like I said, she's an important spirit in Yoruba mythology. But due to the slave trade, she is also an important figure across the ocean in African diasporic communities. And in particular, and one of the things that I was thinking about the most when I started this research is that there's a significant devotion to her in the Candomblé practitioners in the city of Bahia, Brazil. That city was once the largest slave port in the world. And so today, there is a very significant population of people of African descent, and they remember and still worship Yemoja. Although generally they call her Iemanja with a 'Y' or an 'I' at the beginning, because there's not a 'y' in Portuguese. And so due to the extensive spread of her worship across the world, there are many different names, stories and traits associated with her depending on the region, she's sort of been fragmented into different aspects and ideas. Some people will view them as different incarnations of her or different figures entirely, but those people tend to view her as view them as different interpretations of the same core spirit. So that's how I'm discussing her in this episode. And there's a theory about it. It's a theory. So we don't know if it's accurate. But the vast majority of enslaved people who were brought from Lagos to Bahia were of the Yoruba people. But there were also people from different ethnic groups, including the Ewe, Fanti, Ashanti, Hausa and Mandingo, and Fulah people, and many of these different groups and cultures had their own conceptions of water goddesses and spirits separate from Yemoja, but they and their traditions were influenced by the Yoruba majority and developed into different versions of Yemoja. That is the theory. We don't know if it's true, but that is a theory that people have that I thought was interesting. So there are a few stories associated with her. The first story is where the trigger warning for sexual assault comes in. And so Yemoja was the daughter of Odudua, the earth, and Obatala, the heavens, and she married her brother, Aganju, the god of dry, barren land. And together the two of them had a son named Orungan, who is the god of the sky between heaven and earth, and he was so handsome that some stories say his father died of envy upon looking at him.

Lizzie 

Wow.

Zoe 

Yeah.

Lizzie 

That's kind of funny because I feel like that's it's something you would more  see from a daughter and a mother.

Zoe 

Yeah, isn't it that fun? However, one day when, Aganju was away from him or alternatively dead, depending on the story of whether or not he died when his son was born, Orungan sexually assaulted his mother, Yemoja, and she ran away from him and he chased after her. In her efforts to get away she slipped and fell, hitting her head against a stone. And in the force of her fall, jets of water burst from her breasts, creating a lagoon from which other worlds streams flowed. Her stomach burst open when she landed, and the fourteen original Orishas burst from it, birthed into the world. And so in the story, she did die in this fall, but people remember where she fell, and they built the holy city of Ife upon it. And the name Ife means distension, enlargement and swelling, which is interesting.

Lizzie 

Isn't that somewhat similar to the Iara myth?

Zoe 

Well, the Iara myth was that she was yeah, you're sort of right.

Lizzie 

Wasn't she being pursued by her brothers? And then she fell? Did that happen?

Zoe 

Yeah. So she's being pursued by her brothers. They were trying to kill her for some reason. And she ended up jumping into the river I think and either like drowned or like was saved or alternatively was punished and turned into a mermaid into like, the evil mermaid spirit or less evil mermaid spirits, depending on the stories. Um, but yeah, that is a similar story. Actually, I hadn't even thought of that.

Lizzie 

Oh, really?

Zoe 

Yeah. Then there's an alternative story. Yemoja is generally depicted with large breasts due to association with fertility and motherhood. But in some cases, she is depicted with only one breast. And so this is that is associated with a particular story that's different from the previous story. And in the story, she was afraid of marriage because she only had one breast and she was kind of embarrassed about it. But the God Ogun heard her fears and offered her marriage anyway, with the understanding that he would never touch her breast. One day, though, he was trying to prepare a meal for her. He drops a pot and she berated him for his carelessness. And so as in his anger, he struck her. And then he tried to comfort her by touching her breast. And then, since he had broke his promise, she turned into water and created all the world's streams. So that's another story associated with her. And then there's a third story that is associated with her. This is more of a story of found in like, Candomblé religion in Brazil, so it's more of a diaspora story than like an original Yoruba story. But it basically says that Yemoja lived on earth and one day she caught a spark falling from the heavens in her outstretched apron. And it turned out to be the god Shango, whom she raised as her adopted son. And he was a demanding child, always asking his mother for more food, entertainment, and gifts. And one day in a fit of rage, he asked for divination tools that belong to Obatala, the supreme God, not wanting to disappoint her adoptive son, Yemoja tried to steal it, but failed. And then she was punished by being forced into servitude.

Lizzie 

Oh!

Zoe 

Yeah. So that's that story. What's interesting, with these three different stories, they're all quite different. But we see an association with her and like three of the primary male Orishas. Aganju Shango, and Ogun, who are very significant. I think, actually, Aganju and Shango are like, considered to be the same figure, depending.

Lizzie 

Are they?

Zoe 

So it's that also makes sense? I think so I'll have to look that up. But regardless, that, you know, she's associated with some very important male figures and mythology as well, which makes sense, because she's also very important. So she has a lot of different aspects. As I said before, she has a lot of different associations, and she has been interpreted in a lot of different ways throughout the world. And so there's sort of like different paths, one could say, it would be worshiped separately or together and seen as many different goddesses or facets of one major goddess, which is how I'm sort of thinking about them. And since these are primarily found in the Western Hemisphere, she's referred to as Yemaya. As opposed to Yemoja. So that's how I'll be referring to, it's the same woman. It's just there are a lot of different names for her. So the first aspect is Yemaya Asesun, who is the goddess of waterbirds and springs, especially those found in deep forests. As in the springs are founded deep forests.

Lizzie 

Not the birds.

Zoe 

Uh-huh. Then there's Yemaya Ashagba, who is a more primordial aspect of Yemaya. She is a spirit of divination and healing. She connects the bottom of the sea to the top of the sea and she creates floods and tidal waves when angry. Then there's Yemaya Ataremawa, who is the queen of all treasures in the sea. Yemaya Ibu Agana, who is the wrathful aspect of Yemaya. She lives at the bottom of the sea and creates whirlpools and other dangerous nautical conditions. Then there is Yemaya Ibu Aro, who is the ruler of treasure, trade routes and the market. Yemaya Mayalewo who is the queen of the harbor, she rules over merchants and trade ships and she lives in the bays in which harbors are found. Yemaya Ogunté, who is a warrior figure aspect of Yemaya, she fights alongside Ogun and she lives on treacherous ocean cliffs and has a crown of seven machetes.

Lizzie 

Cool!

Zoe 

Yeah, and Yemaya Okoto is the pirate queen. She causes shipwrecks and take ships' treasures down to the ocean floor. She wears a shark's jawbone as a crown, she keeps a dagger clenched between her teeth. And all predatory marine animals serve as her messengers, potentially, including human pirates, which was a wild interesting fact. And she resides primarily in the Red Sea, but she can go wherever she pleases. And a fun fact, this aspect of Yemaya is associated with trans women and lesbians. So that's super fun.

Lizzie 

Oh, really?

Zoe 

Yeah. Like how I think that she's like, celibate or like she doesn't she's not interested in men in this version. So that's why, but that's really fun. And then Yemaya Oddo refers to an aspect of Yemaya who once fell in love with an adodi, or gay man, basically, it's the traditional word for it. And because of this, she is a patroness of gay, bisexual and gender nonconforming men. And she is also especially concerned with people suffering from HIV and AIDS and can be prayed to for relief from that condition, which is really cool.

Lizzie 

That's very cool.

Zoe 

I was not necessarily trying to find a Pride Month lady, but I accidentally did. So there we go. She is very lovely.

Lizzie 

It's nice that she loves all the LGBTs.

Zoe 

Exactly. The L's the G's the B's and the T's.

Lizzie 

Exactly.

Zoe 

One might say. Yes. And so like I said, She's worshipped in a lot of different places throughout the world. And so in Nigeria, or West Africa in general, but primarily Nigeria, she's a mother figure. She's the patroness of pregnant women and the Ogun river, but she's worshipped at basically any river or spring. She is believed that she can visit any body of water and is the leader of all other river deities, as I said before, and she is often depicted as a mermaid.

Lizzie 

Very cool.

Zoe 

Which is so fun, love mermaids. In Cuba, she's known as Yemaya. And she wears a large skirt. Her colors are blue and white. And she wears blue and white beads, seven white and seven blue beads alternating and that represents the oceans waters. She can be both wild and calm, like the ocean's waves. And she's associated with Our Lady of Regla, a famous apparition of the Virgin Mary in Cuba, and the patroness of Havana and the version of Mary, the version of Mary known as Our Lady Star of the Sea, who originated in Europe, but as of course travelled across the world. And she is just associated as a protectress of like sailors and to ocean travel. She celebrated on the seventh of September, and there's a procession of her the Regla municipality, many people also hold vigil the night before on September 6, and this tradition has its origins in Cabildos de nacíon which is which are ethnic African associations in Cuba that were created in the 16th century under Spanish colonialism. So like, these traditions go back a really long time in Cuba, which is really awesome. And so then in Trinidad, she is depicted solely as a benevolent goddess, and she often appears in a rowboat, her symbols are a gourd full of water and an oar and her sacred day is Thursday, and she syncretized with Saint Anne, the mother of Mary and Jesus, his grandmother. So very motherly figure overall. And Brazil, like I said, very important in Brazil, so she is known as Yemanja or Iemanja, with an 'I' instead of a 'Y', and she's viewed more as a general water or sea goddess and she's associated with the crescent moon. She is worshipped alongside four other figures, Oshun, who we've talked about, Oba, who we've talked about, and Oya and Nana, who is an Orisha not found in West Africa that has taken over some of Yemoja's functions in the Western hemisphere. And she's been syncretized with the Virgin Mary, in particular Our Lady of Seafarers and Our Lady of the Conception. And on days when Mary celebrated, such as the feast day of Our Lady of Seafarers on February 2, or the Feast of the Immaculate Conception on December 8, Yemanja, is also celebrated. So on February 2 in Bahia, devotees will get up at dawn and leave offerings at shrines to her which will then be taken up by fishermen and baskets and carried out to sea in their boats. And in other cities in Brazil, her image is carried to the shore of the ocean and celebrated and at the beginning of December in the state of Sao Paulo, people decorate their vehicles with icons of Yemanja and her colors blue and white, traveling from the mountains to the coast to celebrate her. And then they rally around her statue on the Praia Grande beach. And then she's also celebrated on New Year's Eve. People of all faiths will dress in white and gather on the beaches watching fireworks, throwing white flowers into the water, leaving floating candles and giving offerings and toy wooden boats to Yemanja, asking her to grant the request for the new year and they will also jump seven waves to honor her. And paintings of her are sold in shops alongside Jesus and other saints. And that just sounds like a really beautiful experience. You know, being on the beach watching the fireworks and with the white flowers on the water and the candles. You know like that's just a beautiful image. And she's often represented in wooden sculpture as a pregnant woman holding her belly in her hands. Depictions of her vary, sometimes she's depicted as white with fair skin and hair, sometimes white with dark hair and sometimes she is depicted with dark skin and hair. My mom, who spent a year in Bahia, she has been asking me about when I'll do Yemanja, so hello, mom. And she has a photograph in our living room that her friend Iara took. Who is, who I talked to during our—

Lizzie 

Yeah, yeah. Iara episode.

Zoe 

Yes. And she. It's a bunch of different statues of Yemanja. And they're all light skinned with dark hair. They are sort of the similar depiction of woman holding their bellies and they're very beautiful little sta- they're very small too, at least that's my impression is that they're very small, which is cool. It's a cute little photo, a cool little photo. Yeah, she manifests immaterially in worship ceremonies through possession of her mediums, which are known as her daughters. And they go through lengthy initiation processes before they can embody her. And they're selected through divination, dreams, or ritual.

Lizzie 

That's cool.

Zoe 

Yeah. Her sacred day is Saturday. Her sacred colors are light blue, white, and sometimes rose and she is again often depicted as a mermaid. So fun once again. So in Nigeria, her offerings generally include corn, ram, and kola nuts. But in Brazil in the Caribbean, her offerings are richer and involve more meat such as goats, sheep, chicken, ducks, and pigeons and meals such as acaçá, which is cornmeal and rice or porridge; acarajé, which is fried dumplings filled with mashed bean, shrimp, and onion; abará, banana leaves stuffed with shrimp oil, hot pepper and corn peas. And basically full meals are offered to her. So her offerings are a lot richer, which is just interesting. You know, they're going all out for her. And on February 2 is particular devotees will offer her gifts of soap and perfume, flowers, handkerchiefs, silk jewelry and silver. So lots of lots of really nice stuff. And in Uruguay, she's also celebrated a lot on February 2, in Montevideo. Hundreds of thousands of people will gather on the Ramirez beach in the Parque Rodo neighborhood to celebrate Iemanja day and now wait for sunset and then launch small boats holding offerings into the ocean. So yeah, that is her at is her worship around the world. Those the stories associated with her, the aspects associated with her. What are your thoughts?

Lizzie 

She seems cool. I think it's cool that her worship is very widespread and that she appears as a mermaid.  her iconography was like her being pregnant, is she ever like a pregnant mermaid?

Zoe 

That's a good question. I don't know. That would be interesting. It opens up a lot of questions about mermaids and how they reproduce. Wow. Which we don't need to go into right now but yeah, no, I think that is probably one or the other I don't know, who's to say.

Lizzie 

But yeah, is she at all associated with Iara?

Zoe 

Oh yeah, I think I talked about her briefly in the Iara episode because I was like—

Lizzie 

Yeah, I remember.

Zoe 

—some people associate that think the two are linked, like, Iara is a syncretization of an indigenous goddess and this Yoruba spirit and the European conception of the mermaid. So it's all like tied together Yemanja has been, like pretty much only positive associations as far as I can tell, for the most part, like, if you make her mad, she'll sink your ship or like, send a flood. But that's more that's like pretty typical when it comes to spirits is just, you know, stay on their good side, as opposed to Iara, who is very much like,

Lizzie 

Whereas Iara's known to lure men to their deaths.

Zoe 

Yeah, lure men to their deaths and stuff, which is generally less of a positive association for most people. For most people, yeah. So Yemaya, Yemanja, Yemoja, has been a very significant figure throughout history, she's still quite a significant figure in art, music, stories, and personal practices,  especially among people in the African diaspora in the Western Hemisphere. I believe there was recently a piece of art at the Massachusetts Museum of Contemporary Art, which is called the Mass MoCA, for those who are hip and cool. And it was like, a dance or I think, a movement piece that was about Yemanja.

Lizzie 

And when was this?

Zoe 

This was like, back in February, I think.

Lizzie 

Okay, I wonder my sister knows about it.

Zoe 

I couldn't go see it, because—

Lizzie 

Pandemic. It's in North Adams, isn't it?

Zoe 

Yeah. It's a really cool museum. It's a really great museum.

Lizzie 

Seems cool.

Zoe 

But it sounded like a really cool performance. So like, that's, I mean, that's just a specific example of like a 2022 piece of art that held her as like the main focus of the story and like exploration, even today, I mean, today she's featured often in pop culture, including characters in the online game Smite, which I think is like a, you know, a person, first person, battle game or whatever. I don't know I'm not I'm not a gamer.

Lizzie 

Like Smash Bros?

Zoe 

Sure, I don't know.

Lizzie 

That's my frame of reference.  Oh! cool.

Zoe 

She's also a character in Neil Gaiman's book American Gods. She is featured in works by Ishmael Reed and Zora Neale Hurston, who are not as modern, at least or Neale Hurston is not as modern but still very important, culturally. And also, she is a main character of an upcoming book called Skin of the Sea by Natasha Bowen, which we should check out because it sounds really interesting.  So verbal notes. And also during the 2016 Miss Universe pageant, Miss Venezuela, Mariam Habach wore a dress inspired by Yemoja. It was massive, it weighed more than 18 kilograms, which is about 40 pounds for us Americans. And it was covered in pearls and crystals.

Lizzie 

Okay, I really want to see that dress.

Zoe 

Me too. I should have looked it up. But she had to kick it forward in order to move and eventually she did get stuck and needed assistance to get off the stage. So that's—

Lizzie 

Worth it for the opulence.

Zoe 

I'm sorry- honestly, yes. And I do feel bad for bringing it up. Because I'm sure it's very embarrassing for her. But also, I'm sure she looks great. So go her. But yeah, so she's generally viewed she you know, she's a migratory figure. She can travel anywhere throughout the world through her associations with water, rivers, streams, and the ocean. And she has traveled across the world. She is the protectress of the people in the African diaspora. And some people, including Sheila Smith McCoy, have pointed to the use of Yemanja Yemoja in popular culture and arts in music, the depictions of her as a fight back against Western Christian hegemony, which seeks to destroy indigenous African traditions and denigrate representation of the Divine Feminine as represented in Yemoja. And like, yeah, as we've talked about, very recently, Christianity is not I mean, it's interested in the Divine F- It's not. It's not though because Mary's not a not God, but is interested in like venerating certain female figures, but not treating them as God. And so yeah, and I mean, there's all sorts of scholarship about like, the, the, the, how ancient civilizations worshipped goddesses. And then eventually patriarchy took over and started worshipping Gods instead. And, I mean, I feel like that theory is contested.

Lizzie 

Yeah, it's contested, but I don't know. I mean, I haven't looked into it enough to have a opinion. But I do think there's some truth to it.

Zoe 

But it's true that there are very significant female spirits and goddesses like Yemoja, and also there are very... in history, and also that Christianity doesn't like women. So.  Yeah, and that Christianity has like forced its ideals of how women should be. And how people should be.  Yes, I think, yes, that's a quite relevant.  Yes. So, in a way, you know, Yemoja exists both as the model of ideal womanhood and as a subversion of gender norms around womanhood. She is a mother figure. She's the mother of the world whose breasts created the water of life for all people, but also her rage can take the life that she gives through storms and floods, she can take life as easily as she gave it, and she's not a gentle figure one can easily walk all over. And, you know, there are aspects of her like the pirate aspect, who literally sink ships to steal like gold and treasures and stuff, which is not really motherly, but very fun. Personally, I think that's a really, really fun aspect of her I was really into that. I think that's probably why she's the patron saint of LGBT woman, or not patron saint, but you know, associated with LGBT woman in that aspect, because I think it's really cool. And yeah, the many different aspects of Yemoja found across the world feel representative of the journey of the African diaspora, taken from homes like by brutal violence and horrific actions, scattered but developed into their own communities and cultures based on the influences around them. These communities and cultures are different, based on the experiences the people within them, but the shared celebration of Yemoja throughout represents their shared ancestral homeland.

Lizzie 

That's safe to say. I also feel like a lot of her stories do have to do with like violence and being punished kind of.

Zoe 

Yeah. That is true that a lot of her stories have to do with bad things happening—

Lizzie 

And that she like lives on. And that she's associated with, like fertility and strength and like can capsize boats.

Zoe 

Yeah, it's also really interesting that like, in her one of the original stories, she dies, but she's still so widely worshipped. And so it's like, she's dead, but she's not actually dead. You know, she's still very much alive in influencing like, the world around her.

Lizzie 

Like she lives on.

Zoe 

And yeah, that's very powerful. Especially, yeah. You know. And it is interesting that, like, she created the world generally, it seems, through like a painful experience.

Lizzie 

Yeah, definitely.

Zoe 

And so it's like, she's is a mother figure. And she is kind of nurturing. And she is a protectress of mothers and children throughout the world, but also, she didn't necessarily become a mother figure by choice, it was more because of actions laid upon her. And so that is also an interesting aspect of her. You know that she is so heavily associated with motherhood, she's associated with really maternal figures, like Mary and Saint Anne. But also like, she never chose to be a mother like the way that Mary chose to be a mother. Yeah.

Lizzie 

Did Mary choose to be a mother? Wasn't she just like, divine... what is it called?

Zoe 

Well, That's a complicated question. But basic, well, they basically the angel came to her and was like, Hey, God wants you to bear bear a child and name him Jesus. And she says, Okay, I'll do that. And so in that way, she is accepting the role of being a mother.

Lizzie 

I didn't know she had a choice.

Zoe 

I mean, did she have a choice? But yes, she had a choice. You know what I mean?

Lizzie 

Fair. Yeah, no, yeah.

Zoe 

If God, if an angel comes up to you, and is like, you're gonna be bearing this child, like, are you really gonna say no?

Lizzie 

True.

Zoe 

I don't know, who's to say like, I'm not Mary. And I'll never be Mary. But yeah, you know, one of those questions, but still, it feels a lot more active and willing, then the story of Yemoja being assaulted by her son, and yeah, falling and hitting her head on a rock and creating the waters of the world and all the Orishas.

Lizzie 

Which is very dark, but also shows that like, from violence, you can also create something fruitful and healing, I guess.

Zoe 

Yeah. And that ultimately, like, despite the violence, she managed to keep going and is still a really powerful figure. Like controlling water is a very powerful domain.

Lizzie 

Definitely. One of the most important especially because, um, it's a lot of it has to do with I mean, like sailing, there's like, pirates and merchant ships like these are, she's like very decisively important in the lives of people who have to sail at all.

Zoe 

Yeah, like she's even associated with like trade and commerce, which is really interesting, because that's not something that I would necessarily think a water goddess would be associated with, because it's like, sure it happens on the water, but like, I don't necessarily think of it as have a domain of water but like, obviously it is because if all your trade is by ship, then obviously you need the favor of the water goddess in order to want your trade to prosper well or else you're going to lose everything. Yeah. And so it makes sense that, you know, like, that's like basically all the important aspects of life. Love, motherhood and trade. She's associated with.

Lizzie 

Exactly.

Zoe 

Yeah. Water. Not dying of dehydration.

Lizzie 

Important.

Zoe 

Yeah. Oh, yeah. She's a really cool figure. And I mean, she's still incredibly important to this day. And.

Lizzie 

And that's cool that she lives on until now from many, many centuries. That's awesome.

Zoe 

So long. Yeah.

Lizzie 

So thank you, Zoe, for today's episode, and thank you for listening. Please feel free to subscribe and listen to our other episodes and donate to our Ko-fi and normally, we would see you in two weeks, but we're going to take a one episode break so we'll see you in about a month. Thank you.

Zoe 

Thank you.

[outro music]

Lizzie 

Mytholadies podcast is produced, researched and presented by Elizabeth Lacroix and Zoe Koeninger. You can find us on Instagram and Twitter at Mytholadies and visit us on our website at Mytholadies.com. Our cover art is by Helena Cailleaux. Our music was written and performed by Icarus Tyree. Thanks for listening!